Pope may be given a feeding tube....

[oceanperch]

Just heard on IMUS 4am that the Pope has a nasal feeding tube in place now to get his caloric intake up.
So that is good news not major surgery, I forgot about doing it that way.

[Keith in Iowa]

Pope Getting Nutrition From Feeding Tube

[oceanperch]

Boy freepers don't skip a beat around here. LOL

THanks for the link Keith!

[olde north church]

I would have to say I was in the unenviable position of debating a position with which I DO NOT agree. My dilemma, a consistent point of view. Along with the technologies which, can we agree to the term "enhance or extend the standard of life", I also believe it is the right of man to explore all available possibilities of the life sciences including cloning.
Much of the objection to these procedures are the legacy of the Third Reich and the eugenics programs. Other objections are related to the social consequences of having these advances only available to the wealthy to which the only natural question would be, "Why the Hell would we want to clone the poor?".
The failure or refusal to recognize we are on the threshold of a great step in the evolution of man is folly. God told man to go forth and multiply, only those who possessing small minds could believe an omniscient God couldn't foresee what man hath wrought.

[ContraryMary]

It was on his order that a feeding tube be inserted in lieu of what heretofore had been attempts to accustom her to food and water by mouth.

I'm interested in the source for that comment. Please let me know.

[johnb838]

Truth be known, I don't trust Il Papa's health decisions being in that Ratzingers hands.

[Askel5]

Along with the technologies which, can we agree to the term "enhance or extend the standard of life", I also believe it is the right of man to explore all available possibilities of the life sciences including cloning.

Well, first, I don't think it wise to continue using the language of Old Man as you crouch to make that Great Leap you believe better techniques afford where enslaving, killing and re-forming man to more human ideas of utopia are concerned.

Clearly, if you are a proponent of cloning, what heretofore have been considered "inalienable rights" endowed by our Creator no longer apply and a more human scale of relative rights is in order to cover the various classes of sub-humans -- copies, clones, or other products of artificial conception destined solely for "humanitarian" research -- forced into being.

This is one problem I had with the President's taking the Lord's name in vain--probably about the worst thing a person of real temporal power can do--as he discussed the humanitarian use to which excess manufacture "potential people" would be put who had the proper "killed by" date.

So, rather than cling to outdated notions of human dignity or "rights", it's probably best to acknowledge that your new morality is premised entirely on some future that does not exist and love of a man who has yet to be manufactured to our specifications for perfection. None of the old rules apply.

It's especially critical that you drop all pretense of belief in or respect for God as Creator. I'm confident that -- once man elected to decide for himself what (or who) was "Good" and what (or who) was "Evil" -- God could foresee that we'd become expert in the art of pragmatism's alchemy and spend most of our money and scientific research devising better ways to kill each other in the name of Natural Resources and other "real" property.

It's unbecoming on principle -- you can't exactly eat your cake and have it too where your philosophy is so pointedly geared toward establishing New Men and eradicating any notion of universal or enduring human rights or equal sanctity of life as you posit Human Technology ("Technique") as a Force so supreme that it shall best the Creator Himself who -- like you said -- should have seen it coming that Man and his Techniques ... tapping out the shape of the universe with the white-tipped cane of science ... eventually would surpass the Creator of the universe.

This is exactly the sort of thing from which faithful Christians and faithful Jews are barred by the First and Second commandments.

Much of the objection to these procedures are the legacy of the Third Reich and the eugenics programs.

We beat the Third Reich hands down, of course, though we probably owe a most honorable mention to the Japanese vivisections we spirited into the nation whilst everyone was watching middle management take the heat at Nuremburg.. And our eugenics programs -- particularly once we no longer had to skulk around to places like Helsinki in order to vivisect children alive or experiment on keeping severed heads "viable" -- are objectionable in the extreme to anyone possessed of the notion that Man, by his essential nature, has a right to live unmolested by those with the power to deform, mutilate or kill him for sport ... however "scientific" or "humanitarian" that sport may be.

Other objections are related to the social consequences of having these advances only available to the wealthy to which the only natural question would be, "Why the Hell would we want to clone the poor?".

Well, again, not only your handle but your repeated acknowledgements of the Creator would suggest you know already that "the poor will always be with us" -- cloned or not.

Be that as it may, the fact of the matter is that clones will be -- by definition -- a slave class to begin with. As with the current push to fund Human Farming, the vast majority of humans lives manufactured by artificial means are going to be disposable.

(Though the numbers of parents who take the 'heir and a spare' model to an extreme by sifting embryos to find a Donor they can add to the rest of the Family appear to be increasing and also appear to enjoy the same gift for Orwellian speech as exemplified by "Living Will" and "Choice" and other deathist catch phrases.)

The wealthy will not be interested in clones of themselves who'll destroy the cachet of "unique" that still rings the chimes of most humans who fancy themselves particularly singular. They will want clones they can use for parts so that they, themselves, may live in perpetuity until such time they are finally bored with themselves. As in Aldous Huxley's "When the Sleeper Awakes" ... it'll be off to the Euthanasy once one finally grows tired of the Pleasure Cities and no longer is interested in the plastic surgery or other enhancements necessary to appear fit and under 40.

The failure or refusal to recognize we are on the threshold of a great step in the evolution of man is folly.

Oh, not to worry. We both realize it, it's just that you -- having slipped the bonds of objective reality or enduring truth -- are free to be more optimistic than I.

God told man to go forth and multiply,

And so .... having totally divested sex from procreation and hardwired our artificial reality with the "right" of contraception, we're now poised to finally follow His commands by turning out humans by the batch for our Brave New World?

Again ... just because you seem a nice enough sort, I'd strongly suggest you give it some thought and drop the God thing. It's striking a repeatedly discordant note in your otherwise dreamy vision of the future.

only those who possessing small minds could believe an omniscient God couldn't foresee what man hath wrought.

You know ... I get this argument a lot from self-styled "Christians" who tell me that God couldn't possibly have been ignorant of the fact that we'd eventually develop the Techniques necessary to bar Him as we pleased from the marriage bed and that -- so long as a couple was open to having a few Planned children -- there is nothing sinful about the ringing "NO" to life that is "contra-ception".

I find it fascinating. Because you seem a reasonable sort, perhaps you could make the case for a "Godfearing" purposed rejection and contraverting of the Creator's will ... whether it's a matter of excluding Him from the most intimate aspects of "holy" matrimony or, still chomping on the forbidden fruit, applying our superior discerning about "Good" and "Evil" to humans as we decide who is fit to live, who is fit to die and to what specifications, exactly, we shall force the next generation into being, individually or by the ice-cube tray.

[Askel5]

If you search for Keyword: Nurse at present, you will find the statements and a few affidavits of the many nurses who can attest to the fact that Terri was able to swallow ... suck on ice chips, eat Jello ... but that eating and drinking -- like rehab efforts -- were specifically barred by her husband.

Additionally, if you've been watching the children being arrested along with the adults down in Florida, you know that -- per the Court Order obtained by Michael -- Terri is specifically barred from being given anything by mouth, including water, as she is starved to death.

I doubt very seriously that it would have been necessary for Schiavo to take this step unless he -- like everyone else involved in the case -- knows damned good and well Terri can swallow on her own.

[olde north church]

I was going to include a reference to man's hubris, the golem. Created by man in an attempt show, he too can create life by clay and word alone. When the creature is animated, man ultimately loses control. A failure, a parody of man as Creator.
I am reminded of a little girl playing with dolls pretending to be mothers. They possess the desire but lack the comprehension of the full spectrum of responsibility or consequence of the position. Perhaps a more accurate metaphor would be walking in shoes that are much too large or a suit immeasurably too large in imitation of our Father. Walking in His shoes and suit too large we shall never fill.
I don't disrespect God, His will or His law, although I am much extremely Promethean in my outlook on life and science. God created man in His own image. Part of that image was invention, the desire to build.
I don't believe those views are mutually exclusive. It's like any other part of life, acceptance of a situation is limited to an individual point of comfort or value. One could respond, "Certainly I'll stop playing God, right after I turn your poodle back into a wolf."
I also appreciate your civility in this conversation.