Posted on 05/24/2005 9:45:19 PM PDT by FreeManWhoCan
***and I buy what the Book of Mormon says.***
Even though the Apostle Paul says...
Even though WE or an ANGEL from heaven preach any other dortrine unto you other than what we have preached, let him be accursed...Galatians chapter one.
Notice he warns them to beware if HE suddenly changed his doctrine.
But then lets not turn this into a religious thread so lets keep on the subject of VIKINGS in America.
I read a book back in the 1960's titled THEY ALL DISCOVERED AMERICA which gives claim to lots of pre colombian European discoverers, another book claims America was origionaly discovered by the LOST FLEET of Alerxander the Great, Still another claims the Chineese were here first.
So may claims to be researched, so little time.
Put me in the 'don't know' column.
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)
The Kensington Rune-Stone:
Authentic and Important:
A Critical Edition
Edward Sapir Monograph Series
in Language, Culture & Congnition, Vol 19
by Robert Anderson Hall, Jr.
Cornell University Professor Emeritus of Linquistics
Richard Nielsen, Rolf M. Nilsestuen
hardcover
The Kensington rune-stone is genuine:
Linguistic, practical,
methodological considerations
by Robert Anderson Hall, Jr.
Medieval Latin Abbreviation TechniquesIt should be pointed out now that not only would an amateur forger have failed to produce the form of AVM presented on the Stone, but an expert forger probably would have similarly failed. Erik Wahlgren is a leading expert on medieval Norse runic writing. Wahlgren must be expected to be acquainted as well with Medieval Latin. Yet Wahlgren, upon reviewing the superscript mark with the "V" failed to notice it as an example of medieval abbreviation convention. The reason for this failure is simple, Wahlgren is not acquainted with Latin paleography. Very few people anywhere are. Few professors of Latin at the University level will claim more than brief exposure to Latin manuscripts. It is an esoteric field that is not necessary to study to deeply study Latin, including Medieval Latin. Few scholars of Latin are given the opportunity to study from these manuscripts and become acquainted with the conventions of abbreviation... Beyond this, however, the tools necessary to become acquainted with Medieval Latin paleography were not readily available in 1898 when the Kensington Stone was found.
Mysteries of History Solved
I dunno .... with a present day family member named "Darwin" it seems possible that these are hoaxsters using a clever gimmick to make themselves more appealing to scientists who will now take their "discovery" seriously.
The Kensington Rune Stone:
Compelling New Evidence
Richard Nielsen
and Scott F. Wolter
Do you think he makes runes out of his mashed potatoes?
Templars, eh? Hmm. Well, all I can say is, if they sailed into the sunset, heading thisaway, the literate rune writer would not have been invited along; except as protein. Unlikely he'd have survived as far as Minnesota.
But, one man's meat is another man's bosun. Yo ho ho.
Actually, the Templars in France were gone; surviving Templars hid out in other places, such as Scotland. According to the Keepers of Odd Knowledge (KoOK), they also rescued a substantial chunk of wealth. On of the theories about the money pit at Oak Island is that it is the treasure of the Templars.
Kensington runestoneIn 1354 King Magnus Erikson of Sweden issued a letter of protection (or passport) to Paul Knutson for a voyage to Greenland. The Western Settlement of Greenland had been found abandoned (but for some cattle) a few years earlier and it was believed the population had rejected the Church (and its ownership of the local farms, which had been gradually acquired in payment of various fees), reverted to paganism and gone to what is now known as North America. In 1887 the historian Gustav Storm mentioned the journey, suggesting it returned in 1363 or 1364. This appears to be the first published work that documents a voyage to North America matching the date on the stone. It has since been confirmed by a 1577 letter from Gerard Mercator to John Dee, which excerpts an earlier work by Jacobus Cnoyen (now lost) describing a voyage beyond Greenland that returned with 8 men in 1364. Cnoyen also mentions that a priest accompanied the voyage and wrote an account of it in a book called the Inventio Fortunate which is cited in a number of medieval and Renaissance documents, although no copy remains... Nielsen also noted that the dialect found on the Runestone was an a dialect unlike the far more common e dialect spoken by most Swedes including Ohman. This dialect was used primarily near the Bohuslan region of southeast Sweden, next to the border of Norway and near a Danish area. According to Nielsen the language on the stone appears to combine dialectic forms from intersecting languages.
Wikipedia
That's an interesting way of putting Clement's relationship with Philip IV. This is the same Philip IV who essentially broke Pope Boniface VIII. It was "protection" only in the same sense that the mob provides "protection" for businesses that pay them off.
thanks.
interesting.
outside of my bailiwick.
It is clear that you have strong feelings about it but I have always found it interesting and I would like to know more.
and you base this statement on what exactly?
You don't see any evidence of Templar influence in the Peasant Rebellion?
Minnesota has the Mesabi Iron Range, one of the largest iron deposits in the world..
However, they were well south of the iron range, and west of what is presently Minneapolis / St. Paul..
In fact, they were close to entering the Dakotas.
Somewhere down in that area of MN is the source of "pipestone", which was/is considered sacred by the native cultures..
That is a possibility for their ventures, but for the life of me, I can't imagine what Vikings would find valuable or desirable in pipestone..
The notes concerning an expedition searching for lost colonists is about the most viable explanation I can think of..
I totally discount the idea of some sort of Templar expedition..
and you base this statement on what exactly?Barbara Tuchman's Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century has a pretty good account.
Southern Methodist University's Online Encyclopedia has a footnoted account here.
Columbia University has a brief account here.
There's quite a bit of information about the Templars in general and the fall of the Templars at TemplarHistory.com
And so on.
There is ample proof that Columbus had a map given to him...that placed another land or island out in the Atlantic (which he assumed was Asia). Wherever the map came from...is left to question. The same is true for the Vikings...there is no solid proof other than tales. And even the recent stories of Chinese ships in the 1300s making their to the west coast of America or Mexico...cannot yet be proven.
The impact though...when one finally does show that someone else arrived prior to Columbus...will force a major rewrite of every school book in America. Our whole perception of the "great journey" will go down the drain. And perhaps that is a major reason why no one is easily buying the viking story.
Walkingfeather, I've authored or coauthored three history books, with a fourth coming out. You ask for my credentials as an expert on Scandinavian history. Might I suggest you instead start wondering about the credentials in Scandinavian history, or any other kind of history, of "geologist" Scott Wolter and "engineer" Dick Nielson?
I am a student of all these claims, my favorite (being a Scots-American) that of "Prince Henry of Orkney" (Henry Sinclair, Earl of Caithness in Scotland), who was supposed to have voyaged to America circa 1400 (with an Italian-Polish crew!) and carved the Sinclair coat of arms on a rock in New England. The latest book I've seen was about an asserted Chinese voyage to America. These claims are all amusing. I suggest anyone interested read Naval historian and Columbus expert Samuel Eliot Morrison and his debunking of them.
It IS an intersting yarn. Just take it with a grain of salt.
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