Posted on 07/12/2005 12:02:46 PM PDT by Richard Poe
Oh, thanks. That sounds much better than "bowel movement." ;-D
Hillary Clinton is acutely aware of the damage the internet can cause her presidential aspirations. As Jim Robinson wrote in your forward:
She knows she can't get back in the White house unless she shuts us down first. The secret war Richard writes about is still going on. It died down a little bit when Bush took office, but it's just the lull before the storm. We know the storm is coming, and we're getting ready for it.
Thank you for making us aware of this threat and assisting in leading the good fight.
Criminal Number 18F retorts: "So many lies, so little time. ... This is the most contemptible of all the lies, impugning as it does the officers who sat on the AFI 51-3 board and the professional safety officers and accident investigators that investigated this mishap. You owe them an apology.
Their careers are ruined!
"Whose? The only careers I know of being damaged (let alone ruined) were officers who were derelict in their duty to insure that the 89th Airlift Wing could carry out this kind of mission." _________________________________________________________
Dear Criminal Number 18F:
Personally, I do not blame the Ron Brown investigators for whitewashing the crash inquiry. I'm sure they did exactly what they were ordered to do, and very few people — even in civilian life — are willing to disobey direct orders from their superiors.
What is extraordinary about the Ron Brown case is that no fewer than four members of the forensic investigation team actually did step forward and publicly charge that Brown's death was being whitewashed. The names of the four whistleblowers are as follows:
Lt. Col. Steve Cogswell, US Air Force
Deputy Medical Examiner with the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP)
Lt. Col. David Hause, US Army
AFIP pathologist
Major Thomas Parsons, US Air Force
AFIP pathologist
Chief Petty Officer Kathleen Janoski, US Navy
Head of AFIP forensic photography unit
All four were reprimanded and ordered to stop talking about the investigation. You correctly point out that plane crashes are common, but I do not think it is common for high-ranking AFIP personnel to publicly accuse their superiors of partaking in a whitewash. Surely this merits a raised eyebrow, at the very least.
Thank you, Quilla, for your kind words. You have placed me in very august company!
Yes, I very much empathize with Ed Klein, and did my best to give him a helping hand by reviewing his book and interviewing him for FrontPage.
Yeah, it was also interesting that the guy who was eased out of FNI after Ruby Ridge wound up working for Clinton's outside PI. I am not saying that Clinton was pure as snow. (He learned a valuable lesson from Nixon: don't use government employees for your misdeeds, go to the dreaded private sector).
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Thanks for that detail. It looks like they were slapped down for talking publicly... if you want to be a leaker in the military then you have to be ready to face the music. That reminds me of the 60s "civil disobedience" kids who thought they were emulating Thoreau, but were shocked that a night in jail was part of the deal.
If a person had a fatal head wound (to the crown of the head? I can't remember the last time I shot anyone in the crown of the head, can you?) some time before the plane crash, it would be obvious to a pathologist that the crash damage to the body was postmortem. If he got the hole after the crash -- why? He was dead as a mackerel.
You have a bunch of people who didn't witness the medical examination who are complaining, and one who did and is not qualified to assess the performance of the doctor. It's a weak group -- as for the OERs, OERs routinely say average guys walk on water, and then they suddenly turn into slugs when they get crosswise with a commander. Yes, this could result solely from one violation, like leaking to the press when one should not. And no, the guy probably wasn't the embodiment of Jesus before his fall and of Lucifer afterwards, regardless of how the evals read.
Leaking to the press without consequence is not a constitutional right. You can do it but you have to take the consequences, if any (a good reason for all in the service to keep reporters of all kinds at arm's length).
I am curious as to why Brown was not autopsied? It may be an expressed family presence; black Americans are more likely to not want an autopsy than white (I have no idea why). Jews resist autopsy for religious reasons, but I do not believe that Brown was Jewish. The AFIP may have gone along because the normal reason for autopsy is to determine cause of death and it is normal in a plane crash to have multiple trauma. In the sixties they used to be very specific ("Cause of death, complete cerebral evulsion" or "Cause of death, aortic separatation caused by deceleration trauma") nowadays they are aware that families wind up seeing these reports and not wanting to know Dad had his brain sucked out or was ripped to pieces, they put "multiple injuries" or "multiple nonsurvivable decleration injuries."
Richard, an airplane crash kills occupants five ways:
1. Deceleration forces are so strong as to be unsurvivable.
2. Structure intrudes in the space they take up.
3. Unrestrained occupants strike internal parts of the a/c interior (this may be the cause of the hole in Ron's head)
4. Trauma causes death by exsanguination, shock or untreated injury before help can come.
5. Fire causes poisoning and thermal injuries (no factor here).
CFIT accidents in turbine aircraft usually have no survivors because they usually are so violent as to cause fatal deceleration trauma (in the service we used to say, "he got deceleration sickness"). The violence of the accident can be placed into G forces through some straightforward equations. Look for Naval Flight Surgeons online; the equations are in their .pdf accident investigation guide. (Sorry, no link, I have a paper copy).
The factors in the equation are: the distance it took to stop (the human), and the time it took to stop, and the speed from which he or she was stopping. Humans can take a lot of Gs for a very short time but a CFIT crash into a mountainside can produce forty G or more for almost a second.
And nothing seems to address the logical question of, why shoot the guy and crash the plane? Just crashing the plane would do for him, and shooting the guy would leave evidence he'd been shot.
As far as military officers following orders -- you cite several examples of ones who did not! And most officers would not follow orders to participate in a murder cover up. It. Would. Not. Happen. Even enlisted soldiers and airmen are shown videos about lawful and unlawful orders and warned against obeying the latter.
The idea that the military would do this, for Clinton, is even more laughable. I was in uniform when Slick came in and in uniform when he went out. During the Clinton years, my unit stopped toasting The President on formal occasions, and oaths of reinlistment often were heard as "enemies foreign AND DOMESTIC!!" -- Clinton loathed the military, as he famously said, and it's fair to say that it gave him his Constitutional due, but the people in it loathed him right back.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Funny, it was Cashill exactly who turned me from a WND reader to a detractor -- before, I just ignored that one guy who was all-marijuana-all-the-time. I think Joe Farah is alright, he's just very gullible. Cashill and Sanders are two of the biggest liars afoot today, selling conspiracy stories to bereaved relatives. It's shameful.
I don't know how Ickes made a couple of pilots screw up about seven different ways, or got the Jeppesen chart of the approach printed wrong (I didn't mention that before, I should have done, but there was an error in the terrain clearance on the instrument approach chart.
The USAF usually uses military charts but they are on a longer update cycle and so there was none for Dubrovnik. So they used a civilian chart published by the Jeppesen company, same as airliners and pilots of smaller planes would use, and it was wrong. About 240 feet off if I recall... without pulling the file I can't remember whether that error was a factor, but it sure made the USAF leery of Jepp charts. In the civilized world they are very good, but in places like Croatia, which was at the time a struggling state, they get them from the local aviation authority.
Anyway, knowing that Ickes made the arrangements (if you trust Cashill, which I don't, but perhaps he names his source) sets you up to make innuendo about the crash, but doesn't actually prove anything. Ickes was chief of staff -- who the heck does make these arrangements? He probably set up a lot of flights for a lot of other Cabinet members (as gatekeeper to the executive VIP flight wing). Only some of whom died in murky circumstances.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Richard,
I am not going to comment on the specifics of your book, which I haven't read, until I read it. I'd just warn you to be very, very wary of what people who are outside aviation looking in tell you about plane crashes.
Airplane wreckage speaks to the trained, informed investigator. The color of a piece of titanium, the scratches on a fan blade. And we try to learn from the last accident -- to put the next one farther into the future. Valuable lessons were learned from the accident that killed Brown (and a lot of other people who were better human beings than him, by and large, even if not as wealthy or famous).
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
They also used the war room to write fake letters to the editors of newspapers and to Republican office holders.
OK lady, now you got me hooked. Will get several.
Richard, thank you for the teasers. Hope to get a few books signed when I'm in the DC area. I want to give the books out to some of my liberal friends.
"She knows she can't get back in the White house unless she shuts us down first."
Superb post.
Any thoughts on who that might be?
Maybe Trump?
"This is the most contemptible of all the lies, impugning as it does the officers who sat on the AFI 51-3 board and the professional safety officers and accident investigators that investigated this mishap. You owe them an apology."
No. It is you who are lying.
Below is a direct quote from Richartd Poe’s book Hillary’s Secret War, The Clinton Conspiracy to Muzzle Internet Journalists, by Richard Poe, WND Books, 2004, including footnotes.
p. 167-8:
The first whistleblower to come foreword was Air Force Lt. Col. Steve Cogswell a doctor and deputy Armed Forces medical examiner with the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology (AFIP), Cogswell had been part of the investigative team at the crash site of Brown's plane. He was the first of four military medical officers who would sacrifice their careers by going public, accusing the AFI P of a cover-up. (38)
“Brown had a .45-inch inwardly beveling circular hole in the top of head, which is...the description of a .45-caliber gunshot wound,” Caldwell told Rudy (39). In his interview, Caldwell repeatedly described the injury as “an apparent gunshot wound.” He said, “[W]hen you got something that appears to be a homicide that should bring everything to a screeching halt.” (40)
In the case of Ron Brown, the thing came to a “screeching halt.” No autopsy was ever performed on Brown. (41)
Less than a week later, a second military whistleblower confirmed Cogswell's account. He was US Army Lt. Col. David Hause. Once again, Rudy leaked the story to Drudge the night before it ran in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. Drudge wrote on December 8:
“US Army Lt. Col. Hause... personally examined a suspicious head wound on Brown's corpse while it was being examined at Dover Air Force Base. A commotion erupted on the examination table, Hause tells reporter Chris Rudy, when the head wound was first discovered. He describes how the wound “looked like a punched-out .45-caliber entrance hole...”
Two ranking military officers have now put their careers and reputations on the line in what is quickly becoming a nightmare scenario for official Washington.”
Citing Rudy, Drudge noted that "the wound Was documented photographed and x-rayed in a medical examination at Dover Air Force Base, according to both men. But Hause says that all x-rays and photos of Brown's head are missing from the case file at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology facility in Rockville, Maryland."
…Lt. Col. Steve Caldwell had managed to save copies of some of the missing photos and x-rays and turn them over to the Pittsburgh-Tribune Review. Copies appeared on Art Bell’s popular web site, ArtBell.com. Drudge provided a direct link to Bell's photo display.
After a third and fourth whistleblower---AFI P. pathologist, Air Force Major Thomas Parsons and Chief Petty Officer Kathleen Janoski, head of the Armed Forces Institute of pathology's forensic photography unit---came forward to backup their their colleagues. A Freeper wrote on January 12, 1998, “Rudy deserves a Pulitzer. It's time to dig up Ron Brown.”
Footnotes
38. Christopher Rudy, "Fourth Expert Claims Probe of Brown's Death Botched," Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 13 January 1998.
39. Matt Drudge, "Air Force Lt. Col.: Evidence Raises Serious Questions in Ron Brown’s Death," Drudge report.com, 2 December 1997.
40. Christopher Rudy, "Experts Differ on Ron Brown's Head Wound," Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 3 December, 1997.
41. Christopher Rudy, "Second Expert: Brown's Wound Appeared to be from Gunshot," Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, 9 December 1997.
(This ends the quote from Poe's book.)
As far as why shoot him and crash the plane? Obviously, the White House was panicked. They could have launched 2 plots, not knowing which one would succeed.
There was obviously a cover up here. Whether you are sincere in your mistaken belief in "authority" or going along with it, I cannot say.
I have not lied, you idiot!
"In the case of Ron Brown, the thing came to a “screeching halt.”"
Correction of typo:
In the case of Ron Brown, nothing came to a “screeching halt.”
"…Lt. Col. Steve Caldwell had managed to save copies of some of the missing photos and x-rays"
Second typo. Should be:
"…Lt. Col. Steve Cogswell had managed to save copies of some of the missing photos and x-rays"
"I want to give the books out to some of my liberal friends."
After doing so, take cover. They may explode.
"it was going to be the 'bible'"
Yes. But right now, we are little past the stage of the 12 Apostles. The problem is, gaining a circulation similar to the Bible.
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