Marx Voted Top Thinker By Brits

The Guardian ^ | July 14, 2005 | Charlotte Higgins

[MadIvan]

That's quite a projection. We're not the people who are so well known for that attribute.

Oh really? Take a good look in the mirror, you'll find a permanent sneer attached to your face. I only fire back when fired upon...there is an American song which goes, "When you're running down my country, you're on the fighting side of me." When utter tossers like yourself run down my country, you act all surprised and hurt that patriots here would want to take off your head. I don't know what to do with that kind of stupidity. But if you ever, EVER make such remarks to my face, you'll be eating fist and swallowing teeth and blood. Just like a good American would do to someone who acted the same way towards someone who ran down their country.

I'm suprised that you didn't use a more common British epithet to describe me, like for example the old and common, "American Yank: septic tank." But then that's only for saying behind our backs for a few decades while showing us your public relations face, isn't it.

Up yours. I've never said anything critical of America; I've been 100% supportive of President Bush and the war effort. Like I said, I only fire back when fired upon.

Ivan

[familyop]

"When utter tossers like yourself run down my country, you act all surprised and hurt that patriots here would want to take off your head. I don't know what to do with that kind of stupidity. But if you ever, EVER make such remarks to my face, you'll be eating fist and swallowing teeth and blood."

...not surprised at all, and that kind of mouthiness hasn't inspired fear in me yet. I do recall some British trainees personally once whining to me that we dug "too many bloody foxholes." And I hold you in much lower regard than I did them.

[MadIvan]

..not surprised at all, and that kind of mouthiness hasn't inspired fear in me yet. I do recall some British trainees personally once whining to me that we dug "too many bloody foxholes." And I hold you in much lower regard than I did them.

I don't really care what you "think", because it's clear you're not "thinking" at all. People like you are the best advertisement the left has in this country for NOT supporting America: you're the worst kind of patriot, who has to define your country's greatness by denigrating other countries. In contrast, never have I, nor most of the British contingent here, expressed our love of country by saying Britain is better than America, we have defended it against unfair attacks from the likes of yours, which are based on nothing but ignorance and baseless charges.

And I hold you in much lower regard than I did them.

As for you and the anti-British contingent on this site, if you all died in a flaming train wreck tomorrow, I would raise a pint to the Hand of Fate.

Ivan

[jayhorn]

... you're the worst kind of patriot, who has to define your country's greatness by denigrating other countries.

All too common. Downward comparason is the product of intellectual laziness.

[familyop]

"As for you and the anti-British contingent on this site, if you all died in a flaming train wreck tomorrow, I would raise a pint to the Hand of Fate."

Much could be said about the majority anti-Israel mindset in Britain. More Britons should begin to chew on news like the following (which you won't see in your controlled domestic press).

PMW: Annihilate the Infidels"- Anti-British Religious Hatred in PA [Polytheists too!]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1443128/posts

Moslem Cleric Calls for Revenge Against Britain on PA TV-Islam must rule the US, Great Britain
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1409594/posts

And rid yourselves of an erroneous mindset.




ICM Poll of Britons

Q3. In the dispute in the Middle East between Israel and the Palestinians, from what you have seen and heard about the conflict which of the two do you sympathise with more, Israel or the Palestinians?

Israel       14%

Palestine    28%

Both        14%

Neither     23%

Don't know   20%

"Israel is No 1 threat to peace, says EU poll"
The Telegraph
Ambrose Evans-Pritchard in Brussels
(Filed: 04/11/2003)

Excerpt:

The Eurobarometer poll of 7,500 EU residents found that 59 per cent deemed Israel "a threat to peace in the world", with the figures rising to 60 per cent in Britain, 65 in Germany, 69 in Austria and 74 in Holland.

[MadIvan]

What a load of old BS. You're trying to justify your hatred of Britain in the name of Israel? Even the ICM poll you cite shows that the vast majority does NOT sympathise with the Palestinians. Yours is a hatred that is really grasping to find a rational excuse...typical among the anti-British bigots on this board.

It is telling however that you believe that perceived bigotry on behalf of the British public justifies and legitimises your own right to be a bigot.

Ivan

[familyop]

Anti-Semitism spikes in Britain
Report shows incidents doubling in last decade

Posted: July 9, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
Anti-Semitism in Great Britain has turned in just a few years from a public nuisance into something of a crisis, according to a Jewish magazine.

The annual report of the Community Security Trust, which tracks anti-Semitic incidents in Britain, showed 2004 was the worst year of anti-Semitic violence, vandalism and harassment since the group began keeping statistics in 1996, according to Azure magazine.

The numbers include 83 physical assaults – up from 54 in 2003, or a 54-percent increase – and 365 acts of abusive or threatening behavior, up from 233 in 2003, or a 57-percent increase.

In all, the group recorded 532 serious anti-Semitic incidents in Britain in 2004 – more than double the 228 recorded in 1996, and a rise of over 40 percent from the previous year.

In absolute numbers, Great Britain is now second only to France in serious anti-Semitic incidents reported among European countries. Russia is a distant third.

In the Azure story, writer Robert S. Wistrich says Britain is unusual not simply in the frequency and severity of anti-Semitic incidents.

"While many European countries have come to associate anti-Semitism with the forces of either the extreme Right, radical Left, or the increasingly vocal Muslim minorities, in Britain anti-Semitic sentiment is a part of mainstream discourse, continually resurfacing among the academic, political and media elites," he writes.

WND columnist Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, who formerly served as rabbi at Oxford University, wrote in May that "wholesale anti-Semitism has broken out in Britain over the last few years, the likes of which even I never witnessed in the 11 years that I lived there."

Boteach was writing about a decision by the British Association of University Teachers to boycott two Israeli universities.

"So why is Israel singled out for hatred and boycotts by the British, while brutal and oppressive Arab governments face no similar opposition?" he asked. "Simple. Israel is filled with Jews, the Arab countries are not."

Boteach said, "From the mayor of London, who called a Jewish reporter he didn't like a Nazi concentration camp guard, to the explosion of violent attacks on Jewish citizens and institutions, to this boycott outrage against Israeli universities, the latent anti-Semitism that has always existed in Britain is beginning to surface."

[MadIvan]

Boteach said, "From the mayor of London, who called a Jewish reporter he didn't like a Nazi concentration camp guard, to the explosion of violent attacks on Jewish citizens and institutions, to this boycott outrage against Israeli universities, the latent anti-Semitism that has always existed in Britain is beginning to surface."

With this phrase, this reporter proves he's only telling half truths. The outrage against Red Ken's statement was so great that he was forced into a retraction. Also, Labour, probably misguidedly, put pictures of Oliver Letwin and Michael Howard on flying pigs (suggesting pigs would fly when their sums added up), however both are Jewish and the outrage against even the suggestion if an anti-Jewish slur meant Labour apologised and the ads were withdrawn.

I have been through this time and time again with you bigots - the segments you choose to focus on to "prove latent British anti-semitism", are the same segments in your society which show anti-semitic tendencies. If you don't agree that American academia does and says anti-Semeitic things, then you are a total liar.

As such, all this proves, once more, is that you are reaching for an excuse to Brit-bash.

Ivan

[familyop]

Cruel Britannia
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1434659/posts

British Mandate for Palestine (WW I to 1948)
http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate.php

"Early Jewish settlement in Britain"
http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/histories/jewish/origins/origins.htm

[MadIvan]

You cited the same author who was spewing rubbish before, and it's the same old recycled garbage all over again. I would accuse you of having intellectual constipation, but that would presume you have an intellect to be constipated.

Ivan

[familyop]

And the UK officially refused to regard Hamas and Hizbollah as terrorist organizations despite President Bush's request that they do so. But that's no surprise from a country that turned the Mandate for the Jewish homeland into a war against the Jews. ...which war the Jews won.

[familyop]

The British academic rabble and the boycott of Israel

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach
Posted: May 12, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern

© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44236

The decision by the British Association of University Teachers to boycott two Israeli universities did not come as any great shock to me. In the 11 years I served as rabbi at Oxford University, and running an organization that also included a large branch at Cambridge, witnessing hatred of Israel at British universities was par for the course. I participated in many Oxford Union debates on Israel in front of hundreds of students. When our side's turn came to speak, we were booed and hissed to the point where our words could often not even be heard.

It was for that reason that I decided that one of the goals I would most focus in running the Oxford and Cambridge L'Chaim Societies would be defending and promoting Israel's image. I invited and hosted Benjamin Netanyahu, Ariel Sharon and Yitzchak Shamir to lecture at Oxford, and it was no surprise that each brought forth massive demonstrations against them. After all, they were perceived as hardliners. But then we hosted Shimon Peres and the students – I kid you not – tried to have him arrested by the British police for war crimes. Needless to say it was then clear to me that even Israeli doves were hated by huge numbers of British students who were brainwashed into believing that Israel was a Nazi state.

To many American readers, it probably seems incredible that the only country – with the notable exception of America-occupied Iraq – where Arabs vote, namely Israel, would be the target of a British academic boycott. No doubt American readers, who are used to some semblance of equity and justice, are disgusted to read that Israel – a fully-functioning democracy that has taken the unprecedented step of (some would say stupidly) compromising it's own security in an effort to accommodate its Palestinian enemies – would be boycotted by the British while Arab governments like Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria, which persecute and murder their people, treat women like garbage, and stone gays, are given the red-carpet treatment by Britain.

When I was rabbi at Oxford, there were Saudi and Jordanian royalty who were welcomed into the university as students with open arms, even though many of these students were members of families that had for decades denied their people the right to any form of political representation, freedom of conscience, or freedom of the press.

So why is Israel singled out for hatred and boycotts by the British, while brutal and oppressive Arab governments face no similar opposition? Simple. Israel is filled with Jews, the Arab countries are not. And now wholesale anti-Semitism has broken out in Britain over the last few years, the likes of which even I never witnessed in the 11 years that I lived there. From the mayor of London, who called a Jewish reporter he didn't like a Nazi concentration camp guard, to the explosion of violent attacks on Jewish citizens and institutions, to this boycott outrage against Israeli universities, the latent anti-Semitism that has always existed in Britain is beginning to surface.

Britain's attacks on Israel have nothing to do with a specific anti-Israel focus and have everything to do with good old-fashioned anti-Semitism. The country that was once the most enlightened in the world and gave civilization the idea of parliamentary democracy is now witnessing the steady rise of contemptible Jew-hatred.

The Jewish community in Britain is very different than its American counterpart. It believes in being low-profile, not making waves, and always trying to reason with its opponents. There is no British equivalent of AIPAC, for example, a body that exists solely to lobby the American government on behalf of Israel. Several such organizations have attempted, and failed, to garner mainstream British Jewish support, because British Jewry believes that this kind of overt pressure is counterproductive, and may even foster anti-Semitism. For this reason, British Jews usually shy away from calling developments like this new academic boycott anti-Semitism. But this is hardly a time for diplomatic niceties.

But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck. When British academics talk like anti-Semites and demonstrate a visceral hatred for a law-abiding and virtuous democracy that happens to be a Jewish state – while showing an affection or an indifference to brutal Arab regimes – then it's a fair guess they're anti-Semites. Israel is the Jewish homeland, and unfounded hatred of Israel is motivated mostly by hatred of Jews.

Not that the British hate Jews per say. They just hate proud Jews. Jews who stand up for themselves. Jews who believe in their own right to nationalism and self-defense. It's Jewish autonomy that drives them crazy and, hence, Israel is their foremost target. They're used to obsequious Jews, and indeed, tons of them, sadly, exist in Britain. Jews who believe that Judaism should be practiced quietly. Jews who believe they are guests in someone else's country, even though such sentiments contradict the very principles of democracy which states that no person is less a citizen than another.

Anti-Semitism in Britain must be combated forcefully. The old way of doing it quietly has failed. Jewish students should get together and organize massive protests against the British Association of University Teachers and call their boycott what it is: out and out Jew-hatred. The ringleaders of the boycott should be named as anti-Semites. Saying that they're merely ignorant of the real facts in the Middle East, which is what we're already hearing Jewish leaders in Britain proclaiming, is preposterous. Academics are not a rabble. They are not ignorant. They're very profession is to know. They have come out against Israel not because they don't have the facts, but because they have malice.

It is time for the world Jewish community – especially in Europe – to pursue a policy of zero tolerance for anti-Semitism and every other form of racial prejudice. Thousands of years of Jew-hated is enough. This can't continue indefinitely. Let us stand up to it, forcefully and effectively. We should learn from our brothers and sisters in the African-American community who will not tolerate an iota of racism. Just imagine what would happen to a group of British academics who decided to boycott Morehouse or Spellman College? They would rightly be called racist bigots. Hatred of Jews should earn no less a condemnation.

[MadIvan]

And the UK officially refused to regard Hamas and Hizbollah as terrorist organizations despite President Bush's request that they do so. But that's no surprise from a country that turned the Mandate for the Jewish homeland into a war against the Jews. ...which war the Jews won.

Britain was a haven for the Jews; Oliver Cromwell historically was one of the Jewish community's chief defenders. Benjamin Disraeli, of Jewish heritage, was Prime Minister in the 19th century. Our present Tory leader is also Jewish. You would think that an anti-Semitic country wouldn't allow Jews to permeate into its public life so deeply - but they are part of the immigrant community that has added to Britain, and to its history. That is the real legacy. Your spurious attempts to prove anti-Semitism are pointless, stupid and ignorant. And furthermore, it all is in aid of the following idea: you want to legitimise hating Britain, on the basis of Britain's supposed hatred for the Jews.

That kind of hate filled stupidity is so rancid, its stench reaches across the Atlantic. But mark my words - British troops are fighting and dying alongside Americans, and have done so in Afghanistan as well as in Iraq. The only real threat to this alliance comes from people such as yourself, who promote the Left's contention that the Americans regard us as lesser human beings becuase we don't live up to "American standards of perfection" with every stupid thing you say.

Ivan

[MadIvan]

You are purposefully being stupid again...I just said that British academics are guilty of anti-Semitism. Just like their American counterparts. You only again prove my contention that you are trying to nail us to the cross of anti-Semitism on evidence provided by the SAME SEGMENTS OF SOCIETY AS YOURS that are anti-Semitic. Where are you when American academics denounce Israel? Do you say that all of America is anti-Semitic on that basis?

Ivan

[OESY]

Marx Voted Top Thinker By Brits

Let me play Devil's Advocate: Marx was sufficiently clever to persuade many of his followers that they had to kill millions in the name of economic justice while consigning the second world (i.e., the Soviet Union), much of the third wrold, and the left-wing of the American Democratic party to more than seven decades of utter poverty.

However, when it comes to economic philosopy, few said it better than Fredrich August von Hayek or Ronald Reagan:

Hayak:
"It is indeed probable that more harm and misery have been caused by men determined to use coercion to stamp out a moral evil than by men intent on doing evil."

"To be controlled in our economic pursuits means to be controlled in everything."

"The system of private property is the most important guaranty of freedom, not only for those who own property, but scarcely less for those who do not."

"A society that does not recognize that each individual has values of his own which he is entitled to follow can have no respect for the dignity of the individual and cannot really know freedom."

More Hayek quotes


* * *

Reagan:
"We who live in free market societies believe that growth, prosperity and ultimately human fulfillment, are created from the bottom up, not the government down. Only when the human spirit is allowed to invent and create, only when individuals are given a personal stake in deciding economic policies and benefitting from their success -- only then can societies remain economically alive, dynamic, progressive, and free. Trust the people. This is the one irrefutable lesson of the entire postwar period contradicting the notion that rigid government controls are essential to economic development." -- September 29, 1981

"Government has an important role in helping develop a country's economic foundation. But the critical test is whether government is genuinely working to liberate individuals by creating incentives to work, save, invest, and succeed." -- October 30, 1981

More Reagan quotes


* * *

COMMENT: But then, we would be mistaken to believe that Marxist-Leninists sought economic and social justice rather than, with the help of a false but seductive ideology, raw power.

[familyop]

"You are purposefully being stupid again..."

You've replied with personal insults and cowardly threats of physical violence. You are purposefully dishonest about the issues of antisemitism and anti-American sentiment in Britain. Most who voted in London voted for the leftist, neo-Nazi Livingstone--not a minority.

London's mayor: A terrorist puppet?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1443435/posts

[MadIvan]

You've replied with personal insults and cowardly threats of physical violence. You are purposefully dishonest about the issues of antisemitism and anti-American sentiment in Britain. Most who voted in London voted for the leftist, neo-Nazi Livingstone--not a minority.

Being yelled at is the only thing you bigots understand. I have put up with this garbage for nearly 7 years on this board. I've been patient, I've explained, I've cited. I've dealt with anti-British bigot after anti-British bigot.

I would have thought the robust way we stood with you after 9/11 would have done it. It hasn't. I would have thought our lads blood being spilled alongside yours would have finally silenced the fools who said we were too "weak" or "socialist" to stand with our allies. It hasn't. I was wrong to expect that bigots such as yourselves would actually be interested in how Britain puts its money where its mouth is. I was wrong to expect that our war dead, and our dead in terrorists attacks would mean anything to you or any other bigots. All you care about is trying to nail my country to the cross of supposed anti-Semitism, or whatever excuse you can find. This is how it has been as long as I have been here.

And you bleat like a wounded sheep that I'm cowardly and that I'm purposefully dishonest. I've been here to see how many times people like you are wrong and dishonest (which you are being now). I'm just supposed to turn the other cheek when people insult my county. THe threat was not cowardly. You are cowardly for not daring to say it to myself or any other Briton's face and facing the consequences.

Ivan

[MadIvan]

By the way, as for Red Ken...the reason why he was elected was because the alternatives were so dire. Most Londoners want a Giuliani, who is wildly popular in London. That was not an option.

Ivan

[familyop]

"You are cowardly for not daring to say it to myself or any other Briton's face and facing the consequences."

Your vain imaginings and parabolic emotions are neither here nor there through the Internet. By your statements, though, it is obvious that you've not had to train much for violent occupations. I offered referenced facts, and you replied with hysterical rhetoric: insults and threats.

[MadIvan]

I shot holes through all your "facts" as soon as you posted them on this thread. It's not my problem that you want to ignore what I said. And you wonder why I have to yell at people like you - this blockheaded insistence on bigotry would drive even the most patient person to distraction.

Ivan