Biblical Scroll Found in Desert

Guardian (U.K.) ^ | Saturday July 16, 2005

[DelphiUser]

I'll byte :-)

00000001.0000000

According to Mormons anyway.

[ppaul]

After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.)

"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them," (DC 132:20).

The serpent has been repeating those lies since that day in the Garden of Eden...

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods... (Genesis 3:4-5)

[Free Baptist]

Would you please kindly explain yourself? Were you writing this to me? If so, please explain your words as applying to one or more of my posts. "Giant Apostle" ?? What? Oral Roberts had a 900 foot tall Jesus, or a vision of one, or something. Did I say that the apostles all became one "giant apostle?"

[xzins]

The word "testament" does not mean witness.

The Old Testament refers to the old covenant (contract) that God had with humans. The New Testament refers to the new covenant with humanity.

"Another testament" would mean that God has added an additional covenant.

Do you believe the old and new covenants are abrogated by the "another" covenant?

If they are not, then what about the contradictions between the bible (OT & NT) and the BOM?

[Monkey Face]

I thought I was reading a thread on pieces of ancient Scripture?

Instead, I seem to have fallen into a hole of Mormon bashing. Whatever one's religion is, it seem to me that bashing any other religion for whatever reason is not Christ-like. If this is an indication of what your particular religious views are, I feel sorry for you. Beiing Christian means following Christ in all that you do. Including Loving One Another.

[XR7]

Sorry dude.
But spare us your platitudes.
The thread is about scriptures - ancient ones.
The fact that ancient scrolls aplenty confirm the veracity of the Holy Bible is significant in this discussion.
The fact that none exist to confirm the veracity of the Book of Mormon is also significant.

[Monkey Face]

That's still no reason to bash another religion.
The Jews only believe in the Old Testament, so are you going to bash the Jews?
The Rhiems-Douay Bible has more books in it than the KJV, so will you bash the Catholics because they have more?
If you're going to take on the name of Christ and follow his Teachings, then you need to follow them and not be a hypocrite about it.

[XR7]

Pointing out historical facts is not "bashing."
Where did you get the idea I was touting using the King James translation only?
You brought up that issue. Not me.
Nor did I say anything negative about the Catholic or Jewish scriptures.
You are the only one, to my knowledge, who even made an issue of them on this thread.
Why?
The Catholic and Jewish scriptures are confirmed by ancient manuscripts and scrolls aplenty.
The Book of Mormon by none.
How is merely pointing out that glaring historical FACT "bashing"?
And, I might point out, I was not the first one on this thread to do so.

[DelphiUser]

>>Can you tell me how the nature of the Mormon gods
>>and the God of Scripture can both be true?

This is simple

A Mormons believe in GOD (Singular) and Jesus Christ his Son, and Wait, this has been quoted here already, please read before asking...

We believe in the God of Abraham and of Isaac, and of Jacob. We have different interpretations of Scripture, and we even believe that god will talk (Give Commandments) Prophets today. We even believer that we follow the admonition of Paul.

Can a being that exists outside of time be called eternal? Even if they had a beginning? Compared to us? >> The Bible says "Thou shalt not have strange gods before me." >> What is stranger than a Mormon god who:

>> A starts off as a single Spirit, eternal and all-powerful;

>> B who then becomes, perhaps, two gods in one, and then three;

>> C who never changes, yet was once born a man, lived, sinned, repented, and died;

>> D who was made God the Father of this world by his own God;

>> E and who will make his own children gods someday of their own worlds?

A. God didn't "Start off".
B. God did multiply by having children, but I do not think that is what you are talking about :-)
OK, I'll go through the logic for you.
Postulate: This world is a type and Shadow of the eternities.
Cats have Kittens which grow up to be ?... That's right Cats.
Cows have Calves which grow up to be?... Cows.
Gods have children that grow up to be? ... Eternal slaves because he likes to build us and has no true offspring BZZT Wrong!
They wind up (if they are obediant) to be Gods (Children of a God and still his subjects)
C. As long as you have existed, God has Been God, So to you , he never changes.
D. No one was "Made God the Father" of this world. God the Father is God, Jesus Christ is the "God of this world" in that he was called to be The Savior.
E. What EXACTLY is it you plan to do in heaven? We believe we will continue to do God's work.

This is really interesting because I can see you have done a lot of work in trying to do research, trying to bring up things you think will be "Embarrassing". You also either are really bad at research, or are purposefully misstating things.

Do you think Christ would have you belittle another's faith?

BTW My meeting just got over with.

[DelphiUser]

>>Would you please kindly explain yourself?
Were you writing this to me? If so, please explain your words as applying to one or more of my posts.
>>"Giant Apostle" ?? What? Oral Roberts had a 900 foot tall Jesus, or a vision of one, or something.
>>Did I say that the apostles all became one "giant apostle?" We were speaking of oneness and multiplicity of Gods.

Specifically you were trying to tell me that God the Father and Jesus Christ are "ONE" and the same.

This whole concept is based on John 17 where Jesus says that he and the father are one. Jesus goes on to explain that he wants the same oneness from his apostles. Thus the analogy of the apostles joining together as the council of nicea did with God the Father and Jesus Christ.

[Lurking Libertarian]

Thanks for the ping.

[DelphiUser]

Biblia Means a collection of Books. which is where Bible came from it was a collection of books that all testified of Christ.

Postulate: All scriptures testify of the divinity of Christ.

The dictionary disagrees with your interpetation of Testimant:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Testament

We believe that only god can make a new covenant, but no, we believe that the more scriptures you have (see postulate) the more you can know Jesus Christ.

John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

This scripture seems to make that an important goal.

Contradictions? To me they both make sense separately, and together, but they make more sense together.

Do you really believe that nothing has been lost from the bible over the years?

This really is fun :-)

[BibChr]

This phenomenon has long interested me:

Ask a Biblically-instructed Christian a straightforward and honest question, and you're likely to get a straight and honest answer.

Ask a Mormon, and you're likely to get dishonesty and/or evasion.

Contrast (say) Mormon teaching with the Bible, and a Christian will say, "Yep -- totally different!"

Try to do the same with a Mormon, and he's likely to cry, "Mormon-bashing!"

If I were a Mormon, and found my faith that embarrassing, that indefensible, that vulnerable -- I think I'd re-think it.

Dan

[xzins]

I don't recall bashing anyone. I was responding to a post by someone who brought up that he was Mormon and I asked him to explain the significance of the word "another."

Is that now bashing???

[xzins]

Merriam-Webster online: Main Entry: tes·ta·ment Pronunciation: 'tes-t&-m&nt Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin & Latin; Late Latin testamentum covenant with God, holy scripture, from Latin, last will, from testari to be a witness, call to witness, make a will, from testis witness; akin to Latin tres three & to Latin stare to stand; from the witness's standing by as a third party in a litigation -- more at THREE, STAND 1 a archaic : a covenant between God and the human race b capitalized : either of two main divisions of the Bible

As you can see, the meaning of the word "testament" comes from 'covenant,' and is still recognized as 'covenant.'

A covenant is an agreement.

[carumba]

Jesus instructed doubting Thomas: "Handle me and see for a spirit hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have."

[Monkey Face]

There are so many translations after the KJV that the mind boggles at the versions. I have several versions at home, but the KJV was the easiest to write here. I asked you a question about Scriptures...pointing out the differences in Scripture between the various religions to make a point...why does the Book of Mormon deserve any more attention than other books?
And I never said anyone was the first to "bash"...I was pinged to this thread and instead of reading a discussion about the finding of more fragments, I instead seemed to have stumbled upon a decidedly biased series of opinions about the Book of Mormon. To my knowledge, that wasn't the subject of the thread.
What you believe is what you believe, and I for one, will never try to dissuade you. But it seems to me that if one is truly a "Christian," one will allow others the right to believe as they wish, as long as it doesn't interfere with your right to believe as you wish.
If you want to make more of that, you will have to do it with someone else.
Your arguments are tedious.

[DelphiUser]

>>This phenomenon has long interested me:
>>
>>Ask a Biblically-instructed Christian a straightforward
>>and honest question, and you're likely to get a straight
>> and honest answer.

>>Ask a Mormon, and you're likely to get dishonesty and/or evasion.
>>
>>Contrast (say) Mormon teaching with the Bible, and a
>>Christian will say, "Yep -- totally different!"
>>
>>Try to do the same with a Mormon, and he's likely to >>cry, "Mormon-bashing!"
>>
>>If I were a Mormon, and found my faith that >>embarrassing,
>>that indefensible, that vulnerable -- I think I'd re-think it.
>>


OK I'll Byte :-)
Ask me a straightforward and honest question from the bible. So far I have not seen any on this thread, there have been quotes from Mormon materials taken out of context, misrepresentations of our beliefs stated as facts and then requests for explanations of these "Facts", but no honest question has yet arisen.

Oh Yeah, I have not answered with dishonesty, or evasion, humor, yes :-)

I keep saying this is fun, because I knew that some on this thread could not help but bash, and having grown up in the bible belt. I have heard them all.
I have attended Catholic Mass with some friends, Bible study schools with others.
I have heard sermons on the evils of Mormonism in Protestant churches throughout Christendom.
I consider myself now bullet proof to the point where it is amusing.
My faith rests where I think all faith should, on my personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I will take the knowledge that he lives, and died for my sins (talk about contradictions!) over and above any logic, slander or claimed "secret knowledge" about my church.

I would expect the same if I came on-line and started bashing any one else's church

(Plus I would be a hypocrite)