Pilot 'alive before Greek crash'

CNN.com ^ | 8/14/05 | CNN

[1Old Pro]

But who did the f16 pilots see moving about??

A muslim looking guy?

[konaice]

do you suppose the Greeks didn't take on a full fuel load for that

There is only ONE speculative report of running out of fuel, and many reports of huge fires at the crash scene, and the F16 pilots did not mention engines out. The plane would not be flying streight and level at 35000 feet with no fuel.

The difference between Cyprus and Athens as opposed to Cyprus to the crash scene is minimal, well within the cushion all planes carry.

Here's a link to a good map, - image too big for the forum.

Med Map

[Sacajaweau]

This is starting to feel similar to the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania. There were a lot of women and children on this flight which would make it an easy target for takeover.

Why only one text message? Why no other calls or communications from any of the passengers?

Need more data. A lot of this just doesn't fit the world of "logic".

[konaice]

Cockpit oxygen source depends on the plane, but usually is bottle/mask system within arms length. Cabin system is not a tank exactly, but a chemical system triggered by pulling the hose on the mask. That's why they tell you to pull it first to get the oxygen generating chemicals triggered. No tank to top off in the back.

Semi correct.
Its not botteled oxegen, but pulling on the hose does NOT trigger the chem reaction, it merely opens a valve. When the valve is opened a pressure drop in the system causes the chemical reaction in the generators, which are located well away from the passengers mask compartment.

[usafsk]

And you dreamed up the "nonsense" about the fighter pilots directing a flight attendent to take the plane off of autopilot. There is no indication, in fact every report I've seen is to the contrary, that they were in communication with the crew members on the flight deck.

As for running out of fuel, this has been referenced as a possible cause of the descent and crash of the plane in print and on air. Since the plane was airborne 2 hours longer than planned, I'd say fuel exhaustion leading to a glide down to lower altitude, where at some point the plane likely stalled, is probable. The only alternative I see is a slow turing spiral down caused by a crosswind induced roll. Turning would bleed off altitude until the plane hit the ground.

Nonsense indeed.

[konaice]

Why only one text message? Why no other calls or communications from any of the passengers?

Because it was bogus - A hoax.

Read the thread or follow the links to the story.

[usafsk]

Where do they say this? I'd like to see that in print.

[konaice]

And you dreamed up the "nonsense" about the fighter pilots directing a flight attendent

Yes I did, because its standard practice to try to make some sort of contact with the plane in these situations, and they may have been shouting directions thru the radio on the last frequency the plane had used.

Slow continuous right turns are the NATURAL result of an autopilot left on after it passes its terminal way point. It over flys the destination, and if no subsequent waypoint is in the stack, it returns to that last waypoint. No mystery here, no need to speculate about rolls, which the AP would have handled anyway.

[Rokurota]

Maybe as plane came down in altitude some passengers regained consciousness and tried to help.

My understanding was that the fighter pilots observed this at 35000 feet. Fishy.

[usafsk]

A little tired of your misinformation, but I'll try again.

I'm not familiar with the exact type of canisters in use on this aircraft, nor are you I'm sure, but tank-based systems you are describing were more common on older aircraft. Alternatives include those that include a small, exothermic system that is initiated by a smaller explosive trigger that is activated when a passenger pulls on the mask/hose combo. These smaller cannisters are located above the cabin of plane, each cannister servicing a small number of masks.

There are other types that are similar in design. Som euse sodium chloride, some use other formulations. I'll appreciate you not grading my future posts.

[usafsk]

I think you owe GovernmentShrinker an apology. AFP now reporting that the plane ran out of fuel.

[konaice]

Where was the tail section relative to the rest of the crash scene? You are correct, tails don't just fall off unless they are blown off by a bomb inside the fuselage or from the outside by way of air to air or surface to air missile. BTW, who was on this plane that the Greek military might have wanted dead?

From this AP Story:

He said the jet pilots also saw two people possibly trying to take control of the plane; it was unclear if they were crew members or passengers. The plane apparently was on automatic pilot when it crashed, Helios spokesman Marios Konstantinidis said in Cyprus.

"When a pilot has no communication with the control tower, the procedure dictates that other planes must accompany and help the plane land. Unfortunately, it appeared that the pilot was already dead as was, possibly, everyone else on the plane," Cyprus Transport Minister Haris Thrasou said.

A witness described the instant the airline smashed into the 1,500-foot-high mountain, flanked by the F-16s. "We saw some fighter jets flying very low and after a few minutes we heard a very loud noise and saw pieces of the plane flying in the air," said Spyros Papachristou. Story Here: Yahoo via AP

Lots of good (bad) photos on that site. Lots of rescue workers carrying red bags. I'll let you guess.

[Major_Risktaker]

Of course most of these people don't know a thing about aviation and couldn't tell a 737 from an MD-80.

Yeah, well I know all about an MD-20/20.

My High Altitude Antifreeze.

[konaice]

I think you owe GovernmentShrinker an apology. AFP now reporting that the plane ran out of fuel.

Yes it would appear that is true. However, since it was intercepted at 34000 feet, it was only in the last minutes it could have run out off fuel, and the ground fires indicated plenty of fuel left.

So did the person in the cockpit succeed in getting the autopilot off triggering a disasterous descent (co-pilot slumpes over controls pushing plane into a dive) or did it run out of fuel while the F16s watched helplessly?

[longtermmemmory]

This is getting to look like a maintenace cost cutting case.

This airline skimped and lives were lost.

[konaice]

More late news here:

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_1755050,00.html

Larnaca - A trained pilot standing in as cabin crew and his air hostess girlfriend appear to have been the two people seen by Greek air force pilots trying to save a Cypriot jet before it plunged into a hillside outside Athens, reports said on Tuesday.

Andreas Prodromou and his girlfriend Haris Charalambous have been provisionally identified as the pair from video footage shot from the two F-16s scrambled after communications with the airliner were lost on Sunday, the privately owned Antenna television reported.

[Rokurota]

Everyone else unconscious, but amazingly a "pilot" and his girlfriend were left conscious. Fishy.

Suspect #1 and #2 in my book!

[konaice]

More info - it now appears they may have found the second recorder....

"Investigators combed the wreckage Monday and found the aircraft's second flight data recorder. It will be sent, along with the first one recovered on Sunday, to Paris for examination, officials said."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/08/16/news/crash.php

[longtermmemmory]

or like someone mentioned, their o2 supply is independent containers so they can move around.

[Rokurota]

Was their O₂ supply mobile?