Posted on 12/17/2005 5:37:00 PM PST by blam
"The rape of maintaining was horrible,"
meant "the rape of Nanking was horrible"
Man you must be a fast typist to make that mistake. LOL
Disagree. China is a sham. It is NOT the 800-pound gorilla in the living room.
The "economic miracle" has not reached beyond the coastal cities. 99% of China lives in such reprehensible economic conditions that the addition of a vending machine automatically raises the "economic productivity" of those areas by 1,000%.
When it comes to military power, China can exert influence in it's direct enviorns, but not project power beyond it's borders. Doing such would require an industrial base and logistical capabilities far beyond their current levels.
Civil unrest in China is possible at any moment, and with the advent of the internet, cell phones, satellite phones, 24-hour cable news, cable and satellite TV, and other modern communications, would only be a more effective weapon against the Communist Party. Tianamen Square might actually have succeeded if it had the communications capability afforded by millions of cell phones able to transmit still and live video, e-mail, etc. An informed public, able to communicate, is the most dangerous thing in China.
China is dependant on the flow of Middle Eastern oil, just like we are. It is suceptible to interruptions of that supply, just as we are. We currently patrol the Persian Gulf, the Straits of Oman and the Indian Ocean, and have troops and bases in Iraq. We have the Gulf covered. If China should turn to Iran, however, that may be a problem, but it would be an interesting debate as to whether the Iranians would come to the aid of the (more) godless ex-communists.
China is dependant on the flow of Western, particularly American, investment money, which finances it's apparent economic growth, which is easily turned off at the source (just remove 'permanent' MFN status by act of Congress and tell the Wall Streeter's protecting their bad investments to pound sand). The resulting economic dislocation it would cause in this country would sort itself out in time, but totally destroy the Chinese economy.
China is surrounded by Western-style democracies (South Korea, Japan, India, Australia, The Phillipines) which in the event of war would serve as adversaries or bases for adversaries. China cannot depend on it's allies in the region (North Korea)for aid. The Russians still fear the Chinese more than they fear the West. China stands alone.
China, in other words, is f*cked. We cannot even call them "communists" anymore, since they hardly practice it. Where it not for the Chinese nuclear arsenal, we'd hardly consider them a threat at all.
"However, this doesn't alter the fact that there is an enormous need for a naval construction program here in the U.S."
In the long run, it will alter that fact. The Japanese will take on more of the burdent, reducing ours.
Presumably, they should shoulder some R&D (and provide us with new weapons), which they are at least as capable of as we are.
"Japanese are the de facto good guys now."
Japan is a democracy. They are committing no crimes against their own people or anyone else. They are excellent allies.
Most Japanese who fought in WWII are dead. To hold their children and grandchildren accountable for their actions would be akin to racism.
" if japan had maintained control over China and we had not liberated China millions less Chinese people would have died via murder and famine and torture and China would be a lot wealthier and modern today."
I think you gravely underestimate just how badly the Japanese treated subjected people.
You want to know what China would have looked like if Japan had maintained control over the ensuing fifty years? Think Olongapo, circa 1975.
"Construct all the ships you want, but where do you get the sailors for them afterwards?"
As I understand it, the next generation of Navy ships will require next to 0 sailors, proportionally compared to current ships.
Oskar Schindler was also a "card carrying" Nazi.
"Most Japanese who fought in WWII are dead. To hold their children and grandchildren accountable for their actions would be akin to racism."
I would apply the same argument to those screaming for reparations for slavery in this country. Doesn't seem to work here, I doubt it would work there.
"Japan is a democracy."
Japan is a mercantilist bribe-ocracy.
"Man you must be a fast typist to make that mistake. LOL"
Spoken input, not typed.
"We hardly "liberated" China."
Sure we did. When Japan lost, they had to withdraw their troops from China.
"left completely unfought"
I think those who fought and died with Chiang and Claire Chennault would take strong exception to that.
Spent 11 years in the US Navy. Any job the needs to be done typically requires at least four more sailors than actually necessary because of the paperwork and safety concerns, never mind actually doing the job at hand.
Automation is a wondeful thing (I'm an automation programmer) but occasionally, it fails. The systems that run the automation fails, software upgrades don't work as planned, etc. Of course, you still need people to plug the holes and repair combat damage on this "next generation" of ships, don't you? Who feeds those sailors? Who sees to their medical needs? Who makes sure the machinery is maintained? Who manually operates the ship when the systems fail?
You still need people standing on the deck.
"99% of China lives in such reprehensible economic conditions that the addition of a vending machine automatically raises the "economic productivity" of those areas by 1,000%..."
LOL!
"China is dependant on the flow of Western, particularly American, investment money, which finances it's apparent economic growth, which is easily turned off at the source (just remove 'permanent' MFN status by act of Congress and tell the Wall Streeter's protecting their bad investments to pound sand). The resulting economic dislocation it would cause in this country would sort itself out in time, but totally destroy the Chinese economy."
I completely agree. I am surprised how many "experts" can't get this fact that is so obvious to you and me. I really consider it a byproduct of the tremendous disinformation campaign our society is subjected to by the Hard Left (on a worldwide basis.)
"I would apply the same argument to those screaming for reparations for slavery in this country"
agreed.
Not ALL of any group are bad, and not all of any group are good.
It's harder to be good when you're pressured to be bad: This seems to have been a very good man.
I'm sure they would. Perhaps that was a bit literal.
However, Stillwell constantly complained that he couldn't get the Chinese to fight the Japanese rather than each other. When Chinese troops did go into combat, very few units acquitted themselves well.
China stands as the only Ally of World War Two that ended the war with enemy troops still on it's native soil.
"Spent 11 years in the US Navy."
OK. I just read an article somewhere, you actually know something about it.
All I am saying is, the Navy is projecting unbelievable reductions, percentage-wise in the next generation of sailors needed to man the next generation of ships. Repair may be just as labor-intensive, but it seems to me if you cut down the number of sailors on board---the "tail" gets smaller too.
I believe, in fact, the current generation of ships was designed under the philosophy, "Why have a machine do it when sailors are so cheap?" No?
Here's another one:
In the event of war, China's "One Child" Policy would really screw the country up. In Chinese society, the eldest son is responsible for taking care of the parents intheir old age. If enough young men die (i.e. each family's "Little Emperor"), how long do you think it would take for the older generation to take to the streets demanding the end of hostilities?
If I recall properly, China comitted over 1 million men against the UN in Korea and wound up losing 400,000. By my math, that's a 40% casualty rate. With the lethality of modern warfare, I think it would be possible to achieve 60% or greater casualties on any Chinese force with not much effort.
Sailors are not exactly cheap. Good ones require a huge investment in time, money and education to produce. An experienced sailor, regardless of rating or MOS, is a valuable commodity.
It also does not automatically follow that if you reduce the number of men per ship, but then increase the number of ships available (this is one of the selling points of Streetfighter, for example, cheap surge production), you do not necessarily reduce the tail. Particularly if you have to stage them out of overseas bases, which we might have to do in the event of war against China. We wouldn't ncessarily just operate out of Japan, Okinawa and South Korea.
"Sailors are not exactly cheap."
You misunderstood my intent there. I am saying they made a mistake in this regard and now realize it.
The rest of your post is well-taken.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.