Posted on 02/15/2006 7:54:40 PM PST by FARS
Water vapor condensing on the "cable" is not an issue.
Every power plant made has insulators that isolate their lines from ground in all types of weather, many of them at over 500kV. 100% humidity, fog, rain, you name it. It's old technology. So the single issue of the potential difference is not a show stopper at all.
Personally I think that while this idea is theoretically possible, it's not likely practically possible for many reasons. But this is not one of them.
But then, many thought powered flight wasn't possible either. So, I'll keep an open mind.
Unless of course you also include the fact that plasmas also shield themselves against any intruding objects through Debye shielding, thereby rendering the tether invisible to most of the ionosphere.
Dude, its simple, if its an insulating cable, then it isn't there. It has no electromagnetic effect whatsoever. The carbon nanotube materials that are being proposed are sufficiently insulating that the current flow will be extremely small.
Local lightning effects I can't help you with, but they are confined to the lower atmosphere, just like any other tall object.
In addition, the water vapor effects are also confined to the lower atmosphere since the pressure is to low in the stratosphere and above for condensation to occur.
(Affect the magnetosphere? It's generated by the thousand mile diameter solid iron core of the Earth. What is some cable with no appreciable current flow going to do to that? No current = no magnetic field. No magnetic field = no effect. Unless, of course, Maxwell's laws have been repealed lately.)
Yes, I am prepared to be hauled before a Congressional Committee. Unlike you I won't bloviate hysterically before it. It would be an honor to make fools out of critics on CSPAN.
Well, explain it to the house science committee when you're asking for countless billions to fund this screw ball idea. If there is even the slightest HINT that the entire weather of the earth will be adversely affected...the "fondler" awaits...
You're thinking about low level/high V transmission lines, a "transmission line" that penetrates the ionosphere from the ground is a whole different ball game. Remember, you'll be asking congress(a bunch of lawyers)to fund this space elevator idea. If there is even the slightest chance this screw ball idea will adversely effect the entire world's weather you'll get your head lopped off, or FRIED in the mother of all lightning strikes. They(liftport) even got zapped in their recent test in AZ...no, a much better STS idea was the quenched superconducting rings-idea proposed in the star wars era(an EM cannon if you will). Picture a radio tower 300' to 500' high of a series of su-co rings. The sabot, containing the projectile, sits at the bottom. The sabot-ring is attracted to the outer rings which you turn off sequentially just in front of the sabot(with quenching lasars). 100,000g+ acceleration achieves 5 mps velocity in under a second. Small solid fuel rocket in tail of projectile which kicks on at apogee for elliptical orbit. About 1 to 2 shuttle-loads of mass to LEO/day at postage stamp rates(4 KWH/#)....forget the space elevator, neva hoppen as the japanese say, concentrate on EMSL or some other more practical STS concept...we had this all worked out 20 years ago...
Hmm. Veddy interesting!
Yes, the space elevator enthusiasts are sort of like a junior high school science fair project, a right brain genius idea that falls apart upon left brain analysis. Icing on the cable, horizontal hail, water vapor coating as an electrical conductor for lightning in the lower troposphere, possible ozone layer damage, red sprites(super lightning bolts of plasma in the stratosphere), plasma degradation from reactive O and N atoms in LEO, possible effects on the magnetosphere(that protects us from solar/cosmic radiation), the trillion pieces of space junk floating around up there...so before these kids go before congress to ask for billions of your money to do this impractical project, they had better address all of these objections...we had EMSL all figured out 20 years ago, but Reagan broke the USSR financially, trying to keep up with star wars/SDI, and if it doesn't involve horribly inefficient chemical rockets and thousands of high tech federal jobs thereof...NASA turns a deaf ear to any other possible STS approach, a FACT of life we learned long ago...
Its good you are on the mailing list. This means that we can send all your e-mails back to you when it works.
That's a serious question.
an anti space elevator group? Not that I know of, not that there should be any as such. These liftport people have their hearts in the right place, urge to go to the stars, it's just that this space elevator concept has too many practical problems to be a workable idea. We in our new energy group have already discovered AG, outside the area 51 thing, but the danger is it's too SIMPLE to do. Would you leave a loaded gun in a nursery for children to play with? Give a "flying carpet" to everyone in the world and you'd have a human plague of locusts from the third world landing on YOUR lawn...thus on the one hand we have people with good hearts, yearning to go to mars and the stars, and a lot of bad people in the world...maybe we should send them to mars first, naked...
I know you'e a "space-believer" and that's a good thing. But this space elevator concept has too many practical problems to be a viable program, not to mention the cost. If you can't get Bill Gates or Paul Allen to fund it, who will? The US taxpayer? Then prepare yourself for standing in a long, long line of beggars outside the CBO for 20+ years....no, this technology that the liftport group is working on will find its niche in troposphere applications. Do that first then inch your way upward, much like the X-1 to X-15 rocket-plane series pushed the speed envelope in the 50s and 60s. Learn to walk before you flap your wings and try to fly...
Now your being condescending and childish. Talk to me like an intelligent adult if you wish to continue.
Ad hominem attacks will avail you and yours nothing. Already the HARP alarm bells are ringing. Fooling with the ionosphere is deadly serious business and soon enough the environmentalists will be all over you like stink. You still haven't answered my objections : water vapor condensing on the cable, icing, lightning(red sprites), plasma ablation from reactive O+ and N+ atoms, van allen belt, magnetosphere, orbiting space junk....instead all you can do is an ad hominem attack...which clearly show you don't have the answers to the hard questions that will be put to you in congress.
Were you the one referring to the DEBYE SHEATH? From Feynman's lectures : Eq(7.36)(in the discussion on colloidal particles in an electrolyte) : phi = Ae exp(-x/D) in which A is the potential at x=0, the surface of the colloidal particle. The potential decreases by a factor 1/e each time the distance decreases by D, as shown in the graph of Fig 7-7. The number D is called the DEBYE LENGTH, and is a measure of the thickness of the ion sheath that surrounds a large charged particle in an electrolyte. Equation (7.36)says that the sheath gets thinner with increasing concentration of the ions(n sub o)or with decreasing temperature...Now, you'll be asking for BILLION$ to build this space elevator with its 22,300 mile cable from grade to geo-synchronous orbit. Your insulating cable will be passing thru the ionosphere/xenosphere which is basically a plasma. As it passes thru the earth's shadow it goes thru extreme thermal stress. Even though it's an insulator, inevitably charges build up on it, and the more ions thus attracted to it means a THINNER sheath. That in turn means reactive O and N atoms will attack/plasma-abrade the cable material. It's not me you have to convince. NASA scientists are the experts at this, they'll shoot it down asap when you try to compete with them for scarce STS funds. No business ever funds its competitor...
Nice that you finally looked it up. I also see you didn't notice how the Debye length prevents the cable from affecting anything but the local ionosphere.
You have clearly passed the line from doubting to wacky. Anyone reading this thread, in the future, can clearly see this. I consider the discussion closed and that I have won.
Pride goeth before a fall.
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