President wanted, MBA not required: Why the government isn't a business.

The LA Times ^ | July 3, 2006 | Charles R. Kesler

[RipSawyer]

I have seen this up close and personal, as they say. I started a successful business. It was not unusual to have people ask me where I went to school to learn what I knew. I had the delight in telling them which university I dropped out of, which of course totally blew away their assumption that people cannot learn unless it is handed to them on a platter in a classroom.

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I have operated several profitable part-time businesses and one full time one which supported me well for nearly twenty years and only closed down because all the customers were other businesses and most of them closed down so I had almost no market left to sell to. I have zero college training in business. I think some people can make decisions and some can't. If someone is prone to make stupid decisions I doubt that all the business schools in the world can change that. A business school may be a great benefit to someone who is capable by nature but sending a fool to business school only produces an educated fool. I have seen the results of decisions made by educated fools and it ain't pretty.

[sinkspur]

And, your #25 is even better than your #6. You have a unique insight into politics, politicians, and, especially, the human condition.

That, or you're simply able to express your perceptions better than anyone I've read on the subject.

[Torie]

As an addendum to another excellent post, technology is a very different endeavor than science. Science tries to explain the underlying theory as to why something works the way it does; technology is about ascertaining the properties of what is out there, and practically harnessing it, irrespective of whatever the underlying reason as to why it is there, and what generates it. We know a lot about how gravity works, but nothing about why mass generates it. In high school, not knowing the difference, I used to ask a lot of "science" questions, and got "technology" responses, which left me frustrated. Little did I know that as to some of my questions, nobody knew, much less the high school teacher.

[Reily]

That has not been the case in my experience!
All the examples you cite with exception of Microsoft & Gates are from an era when a 'well-read' individual could pretty much know the length & breadth of scientific knowledge. (Also I claim every example is actually a business example not a technology example!) The gulf between a technical college education, a general college education and being simply 'well-read' was not significant. That is not true now!
In a 25 year plus professional scientific career where as part of my duties I had to 'evaluate' technical claims (call them inventions!) of other people. I did not experience a single example of the 'school-of-hard-knocks (self-taught)' technical claim being correct as presented. On occasions the individual was on to something and with a little work it was turned into something useful. Usually these people were simply plain wrong and it was because of a lack of basic scientific training and improper methodology. The majority of the fraud cases I had to deal with involved the 'self-taught', with it split evenly between deliberate fraud and self-deception. However the college-educated (or at least supposedly educated in the subject area!) were correct in their conclusions about 10 to 20% of the time. The main lesson for me from all this is people tend to fall in love with their ideas even if they are bogus. It takes constant self-discipline to keep your emotions in check about your own ideas. Its a struggle everyone has, I try embed my professional life with the necessary checks & balances. I like to think I succeed with at least respectable major league batting average.

[stainlessbanner]

Just noticed this was from the Claremonsters

[philetus]

If government was Toyoya,one of every two vehicles would be non-operable and the other would be missing.

[stainlessbanner]

Technology is the application of science.

[Alas Babylon!]

I always thought she looked like Sissy Spacek.

[Gondring]

Usually these people were simply plain wrong and it was because of a lack of basic scientific training and improper methodology. The majority of the fraud cases I had to deal with involved the 'self-taught', with it split evenly between deliberate fraud and self-deception. However the college-educated (or at least supposedly educated in the subject area!) were correct in their conclusions about 10 to 20% of the time. The main lesson for me from all this is people tend to fall in love with their ideas even if they are bogus.

You've summed up much of my own experience. One thing that is highlighted by these observations (not necessarily inferred from them! :-), is that many college educations aren't that great, either...but that the total lack of scientific training results in very little chance of correct results. (And if your experience is like mine, it's very difficult to explain to these folks where they're off the mark since they don't even see the basic flaws in their assumptions...)

And in my experience, the non-technical MBA being brought into a company is a death knell... I've seen so many good firms brought down by MBAs who know how to be decisive more than understand the field and market.

[Torie]

I have an MBA from the University of Chicago, and it the knowledge I gleaned from it helps me immensely in what I do, the practice of law, not to mention helping me to understand better a host of other stuff, including how to manage my money, something lawyers typically are not very savvy about. MBA bashing is just silly. It depends on the actual knowledge that one gained from it, which varies.

[billbears]

I'm a little suprised. A Claremontista questioning a Republican President? Isn't that against their code of ethics? I agree with his disagreement, even though he is still drawing wrong conclusions.

[pollyannaish]

Excellent Post. I especially like your premise:

The fallacy in this essay is that education determines what a person does. It is how dumb people see education.

Smart people understand that character determines what a person does and education is simply another tool in the belt. The left also puts way too much stock in IQ which is a measurement of potential, not outcome.

[billbears]

Not that I agree with his general overall argument. The national government should be run more like a business. Of course neither political party would do so.

[stainlessbanner]

I think the author is trying to dig Bush and Rumsfield, but he's going about it the wrong way.

Government used to lead innovative, now private industry is leading innovation. It's not Rumsfield that's looking to corporations for help, it's the entire DoD. One example is how DARPA is seeking private ventures through contests to push innovation and technology.

In general, an MBA would be very helpful for politicians. A well-rounded education in organizational behaviors, accounting, finance, economics, human resources, business law. Most polticians (think local level) probably don't have much more than an undergrad degree.

[Common Tator]

Let's see. You don't like the Wright brothers or Edison examples. You just told me you have never invented anything.

The hardest thing to invent is something that has never been done before. It is far easier to "invent" the B-52 Bomber than it than it was to invent the Wright Flier. Improving an invention is a lot easier than doing the original invention. It is far easier to invent with tons of information and research to build on. The hardest things to create are those things with little or no foundation knowledge available to build on.

Dennis Hayes was the inventor of the Hayes modem for the PC computer. He dropped out of college to form Hayes Modem Corp.

Dan Bricklin had a degree in Computer science. He invented the spread sheet called Visi-Calc. IBM asked him to do a version for the PC. While Dan was trying to convert the Visi Calc code from the Apple to the PC, Mitch Kapor whose degree was in Psychology decided to write a spread sheet for the PC. Kapor who invented his own methods of coding, completed Lotus 123 before Bricklin could complete the DOS version of Visi-Calc.

Consider this, a psychology major beat a computer science major in writing software where the computer science major was writing the program for the second time and the psychology major was writing it for the first time. It took two creative people to do Lotus 123... Bricklin had a dozen working on VisiCalc for Dos and still got beat. Bricklin and his crew were doing it the way they had been taught. Kapor not nearly as well educated in computer programming, didn't know the "right way" to do it, so he invented a better way.

But let me give you some more examples. The Personal Computer was invented by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak. Neither had a degree in anything. Why didn't some PhD in computer science invent the Apple Computer. Actually most of the Apple was done by Wozniak and he learned what he knew by reading books and direct experimentation. JOBS was mostly a salesman.

Woz used the same system I do to learn. Let me explain.

Back in the 1980s I finally decided to attend a seminar on computer programming. It was the only formal training I have ever taken. It was at the University of Wisconsin.

During a lecture I got into an argument with the professor teaching the course. Our discussion was interrupted by the head of the department who agreed with my take on how to build compilers. What I was recommending came out of my brain. NO one taught me. It was my creation.

After the five day seminar was over the professors had a dinner. I was the only student invited. During the dinner the head of the department turned to me and asked, "You obviously did your doctoral thesis on compilers. I would like to read it." I replied, "I thought one was supposed to get at least a bachelors degree before trying to write a doctoral thesis, so I never wrote one!"

He then asked me how I had managed to get so much knowledge with out getting a degree. I replied, "You may not of heard of them.. they are about 8 inches by 5 inches by 2 inches thick. They are called text books.. and YOU LIKE READ THEM!"

It broke the room up.

I wrote part of Dos 6 for IBM, a developers kit for INTEL, software that sends X-RAYS over the Internet, part of Delphi compiler for Borland, and the software that runs the broadcast division of Time Warner... CNN et all and lots more.

A computer science professor at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland, among others, uses my code to teach computer science. The prof added a few changes .. just to prove I am not above him, and then published my code with proper credit on the WEB.

Click her for Tator code at U Of Edinburgh

Professors do what they have always done. They get information from people who created the information, and then teach others how to do what someone else has created.

But if you want to learn how to do what has never been done, a college degree is of little help. If what is needed was obvious, it would have already been invented.

You can't learn to think outside the box while living in the Box.

[Reily]

Obviuously I hit a nerve.
I was simply relating my experience.
My experience is in the physical sciences.
The 1960s to 1980s era of computer science was its nascent period from a engineering standpoint. It was a time for tremendous contributions from the 'self-taught' and you cited several. However if those funny useless PhDs had not done the basic science to create transistors, integrated circuits or developed the concept of mechanical calculation & programming, we might be having this argument with two typewrites connected with a string. PhDs Allen Turing & Johann Von Neumann developed the whole concept of programming, computing & programming architectures. They did this intellectual heavy lifting long before you & I were born.(And George Boole is another story!)
I was not trying to put you down or claim to be superior. I was just relating my personal experiences. Life is not mathematical absolutes there are always exceptions. Also I did not feel like reciting my vita regarding any papers or patents that I have. They are not germane to my arguments nor did they change my experiences.
If you choose to be offended by me reciting my professional experiences then thats your problem ! By the way I an a big admirer of the Wright Brothers, however I think Edison is overrated. Give me Steinmetz & Tesla !

[Common Tator]

Smart people understand that character determines what a person does and education is simply another tool in the belt.

There was a time that in order to prove you were qualified to do somthing, you had to demonstrate you could do it.

Today you have to prove you have a degree which implies you know how to do it. But quite often that is not true. But more importantly failure to have a degree is proof you do not know how to do it, and that also is quite often false.

[Torie]

Credentialism is a short cut, to sort out , as a first cut: not perfect, and often wrong. One thing I know: after practicing law for 30 years: I am I of the opinion that I am very, very much better at it now, than I was when I got my credential, from a very, very chic law school. I have a confidence now, that I did not have then, or 20 years ago, or 10 years ago, from just doing it, again, and again, and again. I have more confidence in my judgment, what is important, and what is not, and the odds, and the costs and the benefits. I am proud of what I do. I feel that at last, in my heart, I am worthy of my clients, and the huge fees they pay. That gives me great pleasure. On a good day, it gives me joy.

You know the feeling, you old warrior you. Of course you do. You have been at what you do, even longer than I, to finally achieve that smooth swing. Cheers.

[rustbucket]

I'm not familiar with him, but he's not off base in some of his writings.

His interesting take on Reagan: For the Gipper

And another more recent article: Hard Questions

[pollyannaish]

I believe that real education comes after you finish getting your degree. It did for me. I am not sorry, however, that I got it.

Your posts on this thread have been outstanding.

Thank you.