Posted on 07/04/2006 7:38:49 PM PDT by nj26
He's always wanted amnesty, but now he's worried about his legacy.
Destroying the sovereignty of the United States is a solution to millions of illegal invaders? Are you an American?
You mean like your obsession with granting millions of illegals amnesty?
By "you folks" do you mean law-abiding Americans as opposed to the "folks" that want to reward millions of illegals with the rights of citizenship they have not earned?
I think they work in karl rove's office.
I think you are traitor hell bent on destroying the culture of America.
Thank you!
You either miss the point or refuse to get it. Just because Pence calls them "guest workers" doesn't make it so. The Clintonesque use of the language is meant to disguise what is happening. You seem to have bought it.
The path to citizenship is very clear. After the 12 to 20 million illegals self-deport for less than a week and are transformed into "guest workers," they can renew their W visas for up to six years and then have the option of returning home or applying for citizenship here. Pence doesn't indicate whether the W visa holders will be able to bring their families. If someone has been here since the last amnesty in 1986, there is no way that they are going to be deported. especially after spending an additional six years in "guest worker" status.
You are the one lacking specifics. The Pence Plan is quite specific about how the illegals will be dealt with. Just like McCain-Kennedy who deny that their plan is amnesty, Pence does the same thing. But the facts give the lie to such claims. We are rewarding people for illegal behavior.
LOL, I call it an "amnesty-type advantage" and then I call it an "amnesty" in several parts of my post and you give me some BS about using a euphemism for an amnesty.
So you agree that the Pence Plan is amnesty despite his claim that it isn't?
I've made my point and as I said before, add an enforcement first HR4437 type plan and I will gladly consider the above-type of amnesty if enforcement works over time. I think most of the country will too.
You didn't make your point and that is the problem. You are still trying to avoid calling it amnesty outright. It is not a "type of" amnesty, it is amnesty. Most of the American people want enforcement first and no additional guest worker program. The Pence plan will increae the number of guest workers by legalizing the 12 to 20 million here and allowing more to come in over the initial three year period of the plan with no cap on the numbers. It is worse than the Senate bill.
Agreed.
I think GWB was playing with the politics south of the border. Now that the "conservative" fellow seems to have been elected, he now believes it is a better time to negotiate with the House and Tacredo types.
Until then, in order to keep the lefty out, he had to stick to his open borders personal preference in order to avoid rallying the lefty's base.
It has always been a non sequitor to say that border security must be linked to a guest worker/amensty plan.
Agreed. The Senate Dems/RINOs are making that linkage to hold border enforcement hostage to their amnesty and guest worker plan. There must be sequencing to shut off the supply first. I don't see any great sense of urgency of dealing with those who are already here. Before we can make good public policy, we need to get a handle on the size and scope of the problem. We don't even have a good idea of how many illegals are in the country with the numbers flucuating from 9 to 20 million.
Yes, it is an amnesty type advantage to wait in country for a a green card, but three things. (1)They aren't cutting in front of others waiting in the green card line; (2) they aren't voting as citizens; (3) we don't see a slug of new voting citizens like we did under Reagan's amnesty without an increase in the green card quotas. There's the "amnesty".
Now add to that an enforcement first HR4437 type plan and I will gladly consider the above-type of amnesty if enforcement works over time.
You either miss the point or refuse to get it. Just because Pence calls them "guest workers" doesn't make it so. The Clintonesque use of the language is meant to disguise what is happening. You seem to have bought it.
My friend, I specifically described the components of the Pence plan that are amnesty. You seem incapable of talking past labels and talking toward specifics.
So you agree that the Pence Plan is amnesty despite his claim that it isn't?
LOL, read my post.
You didn't make your point and that is the problem. You are still trying to avoid calling it amnesty outright. It is not a "type of" amnesty, it is amnesty.
Really, seriously, you've got to be kidding. I specifically defined the components of the plan that are amnesty components. Then I went on to say that I would want to see enforcement working for a period of time before I would consider the plan with its components of amnesty.
The problem is there was no bogey man aspect to my response so you have to -- miss it.
The Pence Plan is amnesty. You continue to try to obfuscate and parse your language. Amnesty components? The 614 page Senate bill has amnesty components. And yes, the 12 to 20 million illegals do jump to the head of the line and are allowed to work and live in the US while applying for it. The Pence Plan also increases the number of guest workers with no cap during the first three years. The Pence Plan rewards illegal behavior.
From a practical standpoint, the Pence plan won't work. It will take far more than one week to do background checks, which must be done in the US and the home country. As someone who has had practical experience in processing and issuing visas, the Pence Plan is totally unworkable.
My friend, I specifically described the components of the Pence plan that are amnesty. You seem incapable of talking past labels and talking toward specifics.
I have provided the specifics, you haven't. The idea that various components of the Pence Plan can be addressed separately is nonsense. It stands and falls on its own in its entirety. Otherwise, it is no longer the Pence Plan.
Really, seriously, you've got to be kidding. I specifically defined the components of the plan that are amnesty components. Then I went on to say that I would want to see enforcement working for a period of time before I would consider the plan with its components of amnesty.
The House bill provides an enforcement first approach. It doesn't address guest worker programs. If you are going to take the enforcement portion of the Pence Plan, which is essentially the House bill, why are the "amnesty components" even germane? Either you are for the Pence Plan or you are not. The Pence Plan is amnesty. You are defending the indefensible.
"Pssssssst, Tancredo calls the Pence Plan amnesty. He's opposed to it."
Psssssst, Tancredo calls the Pence Plan amnesty because that's exactly what it is.
"The question now is whether President Bush will be able to find that middle ground in time for the midterm elections. Mr. Cole, the Oklahoma Republican, was not optimistic.
"Our people would like to have some sort of solution," he said, "but my instinct tells me this is much more likely to be a post-November, or a 2007 kind of deal than it is to happen between now and then.""
Are we to assume that the House will go ahead and open the borders and grant citizenship, but just not before the Nov. 2006 elections? I've seen so many statements that make it seem as if immigration will open up, but just not NOW. Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Bert certainly has a hard on for enforcing gun laws though.
When has Bush not signed ANYTHING gladly?
It's just another attempt to fool Americans!! The White House doesn't think they lost. They're just changing tactics to get what they want. Amnesty!!
You disagree, Polly?
btt
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