Posted on 09/11/2006 9:22:16 PM PDT by stainlessbanner
So you're not a kid, even if you are young enough to be my child (by the time I worked with CP/M and 8" disks I had been programming over a decade). Good.
When I drive a car, it isn't just around the block or around town for a weekend. It is for 12+ years.
So you can't speak from experience, which was the point of my post. I have sampled hundreds of cars and driven them for work (between a week and a month each time). And I am telling you for the last 10 years, Ford, GM and Chrystler cars have provided (to me, anyway) FAR inferior driving experiences when compared to their Japanese counterparts.
And I am sure (although I don't have the data handy) the objective reliability stats bear me out. But if you are in the business, I am sure you can provide us with an objective link comparing reliability, quality, etc.
I have rented cars for the past 10 years and drive each for about a week at a time. I have driven just about every commodity car out there....all of them more than once.
I can't believe you came away thinking Detroit products are any good.
I just bought, of all things, a Scion Xbox. I needed to get my largest bass case (50") in. When I saw that it would fit I read lots of reviews and had very high expectations. All of them were exceeded when I test drove it.
I have NEVER been as satisfied with a car purchase in my entire life as I am with this curious little box. It seats four "over six footers" comfortably.
Not all Detroit products are good, but not all Tokyo products are good either!
Actually, the equal quality of Detroit iron versus imported iron is backed up by reports and statistics.
You can't deny that Toyota is recalling more vehicles than Daimler Chrysler. Toyota has been reprimanded by the Japanese government for hiding defects that should have been reported.
Mitsubishi has been caught before conducting silent recalls that were mandated by law to have been publicly announced in order to create the appearance of high quality.
Bingo!
Love that Jag! A rolling work af art!
Yeah. You and Slick sport wood with anything in blue.
LOL
Series, glad you like it. Should I run ads in Penthouse?
As long as you print the letters, too. "Dear Penthouse. I thought this would never happen to an average guy like me. The twin sisters in the apartment next to mine bought this car..."
Yeah, I can't wait to see the SE-R model.
I can't wait to see one with a four cylinder that doesn't burn oil.
(personally, I think the styling, while not objectionable is very uninspired. Rather like the uninspired styling on the Ford Five Hundred)
Thanks. *I* like it, anyway. :)
"So you can't speak from experience, which was the point of my post"
WAIT -- I drive cars for 12+ years, giving a good test of their reliability. You drive them for a week, and you claim THAT is a good test of reliability? I hate to tell you, but you have absolutely no experience in the world of reliability from driving cars for a weekend. Seat comfort? Sure, you get to experience that. Figuring out if that transmission is built well enough to last 200k? Not a chance.
I can't provide you with identifiable information from my work. I can tell you a few things, though, and point you to other information. For example, take a six-sigma level of variation within the car bodies. The 95th percentile I have seen between 2.4 and 16 mm. Most are around 3.5-4 mm. Your expectation of where different companies land on the spectrum I can guarantee you is not right. But then what is the difference between 2.4mm and 3.5mm at a six sigma level on an object around 5000 mm long? Not much.
Now as for reliability, I can only give you publicly available information. GM extended its powertrain warranty to 5yrs/100k miles, and announced that 2yr/64k mile extension + extra roadside assistance will cost it less than $100 per vehicle. Considering the cost of a tow....
Then there is JD Power's Dependability Study (NOT the Initial Quality study), Consumer Reports, msnautos.com and partsamerica.com. The latter two give estimated costs of repair for common problems. JD Power gives problem rates, but considers all problems without accounting for cost or meantime to repair. Consumer Reports gives only serious problems, but relies on readers to define serious and doesn't report absolute rates - just relative rates. Those rates tend to be VERY small for serious problems anymore. So small that you need sample sizes in the thousands to make accurate conclusions (which they don't have). So small that the odds of having a serious problem on most any model are small. So small that they often come to very different conclusions on the reliability of mechanically identical vehicles.
Note also with JD Power that with the exception of Honda and Toyota, most Japanese makes end up below average. Note also that all of Ford's domestic makes end up above average, and Mercury beats out single make but Lexus. And then Buick and Cadillac finish right behind them.
One of the BEST thought out surveys I have seen is at truedelta.com. However, they don't have reliability data compiled and available yet, and the list of vehicles currently being surveyed is very small. They will begin reporting results on a model with 25 of that model & year. This is still far too small, but because of the survey design, it does a better job with the sample size it gets.
(note: I have no affiliation with truedelta, jdpower, msnauto, or any car company or survey)
I dunno what Altimas you've seen, but the KA's don't burn oil any more than any other similar engine does.
That said, the only way to go in an Altima is the VQ35 - an engine that Ford and GM still can't match.
Point of order - if the car *does* fall apart in a week, that *does* tell you something about quality.
(Says the guy that had four GMs break under him at the AutoShow In Motion.)
The U.S. still manufactures a considerable amount of heavy equipment.
Ford and GM are public companies that compete (and build their cars) in a global marketplace. They are no more "patriotic" than a bottle of ketchup.
Your Cobra is pretty nice, but you have to admit, in order for it not to be a nearly automatic deathtrap in even the most trivial accident and therefore sellable by an auto manufacturer, it would have to be totally reengineered from the ground up, probably weigh 1000 pounds more, have colossal rubber bumpers, numerous other safety features, and about half the 1/4 mile times to make it actually insurable by anyone under 50. It's so crude by today's standards...at least some modern amenities would have to be added. Then, it would be...hmmm...a Solstice!
No, actually, it wouldn't.
See the Panoz Esperante and Shelby Series 1.
The Solstice doesn't have an aluminum Boss 302, Crane cams, roller taappets, Edelbrock intake manifold, Jaguar independent rear suspension with inboard calipers, dual coil-over Bilstein shocks, Compomotive racing wheels and twin rotor racing brakes, and other assorted goodies either. No windows, no heat, no AC, no radio, no top, but it does have a 5-point Simpson racing harness to keep the occupants from falling out. I have about 46k in the car, just in parts. The labor was all mine with the exception of the paint shop.
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