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Prospecting for Oil? Look In an Asteroid Crater
space.com website ^ | 14 December 1999 | By Michael Paine

Posted on 10/07/2006 6:33:48 PM PDT by Fred Nerks

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To: Strategerist

More like "embarassing joke" rather than "pariah" and it's rather difficult to describe him as a scientist or part of the scientific community.



http://www.thunderbolts.info/velikovsky-ghost.htm

The Russian-born scholar was a friend and colleague of Albert Einstein, a student of Freud's first pupil Wilhelm Stekel, and Israel's first practicing psychoanalyst. Some of his writings appeared in Freud's Imago. In 1930 he published the first paper to suggest that epileptics would be characterized by abnormal encephalograms. He was the founder and editor of the scholarly publication, Scripta Universitatis, the physics and mathematics section being prepared by Einstein.

It was while researching a book on Freud and his heroes that Velikovsky first wondered about the catastrophes said to have accompanied the Hebrew Exodus, when fire and hailstones rained upon Egypt, earthquakes decimated the nation, and a pillar of fire and smoke moved in the sky. Biblical and other traditional Hebrew sources speak so vividly that Velikovsky began to wonder if some extraordinary natural event might have played a part in the Exodus.

To explore this possibility, Velikovsky sought out a corresponding account in ancient Egyptian records, finding a remarkable parallel in a papyrus kept at the University of Leyden Museum, called the Papyrus Ipuwer. The document contains the lamentations of an Egyptian sage in response to a great catastrophe overwhelming Egypt, when the rivers ran red, fire blazed in the sky, and pestilence ravaged the land.

Velikovsky also encountered surprising parallels in Babylonian and Assyrian clay tablets, Vedic poems, Chinese epics, and North American Indian, Maya, Aztec, and Peruvian legends. From these remarkably similar accounts, he constructed a thesis of celestial catastrophe. He concluded that a very large body -- apparently a "comet" -- passed close enough to Earth to violently perturb its axis, as global earthquakes, wind and falling stone decimated early civilizations.

Before Velikovsky could complete his reconstruction, he had to resolve an enigma. He had found that in the accounts of far-flung cultures, the cometary agent of disaster was identified as a planet. And the closer he looked, the more clear it became to him that this planet was Venus: The converging ancient images include the Babylonian "torch-star" Venus and "bearded star" Venus, the Mexican "smoking star" Venus, the Peruvian "long-haired" star Venus, the Egyptian Great Star "scattering its flame in fire" and the widespread imagery of Venus as a flaming serpent or dragon in the sky. In each instance, the cometary language is undeniable, for these were the very symbols of "the comet" in the ancient languages.

By following the evidence, Velikovsky discovered that Venus holds a special place among the world's first astronomers. In both the Old World and the New, ancient stargazers regarded Venus with awe and terror, carefully observing its risings and settings, and claiming the planet to be the cause of world-ending catastrophe. These astronomical traditions, Velikovsky reasoned, must have had roots in a traumatic human experience, though modern science has always assumed that the planets evolved in quiet and undisturbed isolation over billions of years.

Based on extensive cross-cultural comparison, Velikovsky concluded that the planet Venus, prior to the dawn of recorded history, was ejected violently from the gas giant Jupiter, displaying a spectacular comet-like tail. Its later catastrophic approach to the Earth (around 1500 B.C.) provided the historical backdrop to the Hebrew Exodus, Velikovsky claimed.

In Worlds in Collision, Velikovsky argued that the terrifying "gods" of the ancient world were planets -- those inconspicuous specks of light we see moving with clock-like regularity, as if to deny their chaotic roles in the past. The book recounted two close encounters of the comet or protoplanet Venus with the Earth. Included in the same volume was a large section on the ancient war god, whom Velikovsky identified as the planet Mars. He claimed that centuries after the Venus catastrophes, Mars moved on an unstable orbit intersecting that of Earth, leading to a series of Earth-disturbing events in the eighth and seventh centuries B.C.

With the first reviews of the book, the publisher Macmillan came under fire from astronomers and scientists. But sales of Worlds in Collision skyrocketed, and it quickly soared to the top of the bestseller lists. Dr. Harlow Shapley, director the Harvard Observatory, branded the book "nonsense and rubbish," but without reading it. A letter from Shapley to Macmillan threatened a boycott of the company's textbook division. The astronomer Fred Whipple threatened to break his relations with the publisher. Under pressure from the scientific community, Macmillan was forced to transfer publishing rights to Doubleday, though Worlds in Collision was already the number one bestseller in the country. Macmillan editor James Putnam, who had been with the company for 25 years and had negotiated the contract for Worlds in Collision, was summarily dismissed.

In the wake of Macmillan's publication of Worlds in Collision, one scientific journal after another denounced Velikovsky's work. The eminent astronomer and textbook author Donald Menzel publicly ridiculed Velikovsky. Astronomer Cecilia-Payne Gaposchkin launched a campaign to discredit Velikovsky, without reading Worlds in Collision. The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists produced a series of articles grossly misrepresenting Velikovsky. And Gordon Atwater, curator of the respected Hayden Planetarium, was fired after having proposed in This Week Magazine that Velikovsky's work deserved open-minded discussion.

For many years after publication of Worlds in Collision, Velikovsky was persona non grata on college campuses. He was denied the opportunity to publish articles in scientific journals. When he attempted to respond to critical articles in such journals, they rejected these responses. The attitude of established science was typified by the reactions of astronomers. Michigan astronomer Dean McLaughlin exclaimed, "Lies -- yes lies." In response to a correspondent, astronomer Harold Urey, wrote: "My advice to you is to shut the book and never look at it again in your lifetime."

For Velikovsky, this was the beginning of a personal "dark age". But remarkably, his friendship with Albert Einstein was unaffected, and Einstein met with him often, maintaining an extended correspondence as well, encouraging Velikovksy to look past the misbehavior of the scientific elite. In discussion with Einstein, Velikovsky predicted that Jupiter would be found to emit radio noises, and he urged Einstein to use his influence to have Jupiter surveyed for radio emission, though Einstein himself disputed Velikovsky's reasoning. But in April 1955 radio noises were discovered from Jupiter, much to the surprise of scientists who had thought Jupiter was too cold and inactive to emit radio waves. That discovery led Einstein to agree to assist in developing other tests of Velikovsky's thesis. But the world's most prominent scientist died only a few weeks later.

Velikovsky expected other discoveries through space exploration. He claimed that the planet Venus would be found to be extremely hot, since in his reconstruction, the planet was "candescent" in historical times. His thesis also implied the likelihood of a massive Venusian atmosphere, residue of its former "cometary" tail. And he claimed that the Earth would be found to have a magnetosphere reaching at least to the moon, because he was convinced that in historical times the Earth exchanged electrical charge with other planetary bodies.

Arrival of the space age was a critical juncture for Velikovsky, as data returned from the Moon, from Mars, and from Venus begin to recast our views of these celestial bodies. In 1959, Dr. Van Allen discovered that the Earth has a magnetosphere. In the early sixties, scientists realized, much to their surprise, that the planet Venus has a surface temperature as high as 900 degrees Fahrenheit, hot enough to melt lead. "The temperature is much higher than anyone would have predicted," wrote Cornell Mayer.

Things grew more promising for Velikovsky. In 1962, two scientists, Valentin Bargmann, professor of physics at Princeton, and Lloyd Motz, professor of astronomy at Columbia, urged that Velikovsky's conclusions "be objectively re-examined." In support of this reconsideration, they cited his prior predictions about radio noises from Jupiter, the terrestrial magnetosphere, and an unexpectedly high temperature of Venus.

In July 1969, on the eve of the first landing on the Moon, the New York Times invited Velikovsky to summarize what he expected the Apollo missions to find. Velikovsky responded by listing nine "advance claims," including remanent magnetism, a steep thermal gradient, radioactive hot spots, and regular moonquakes. All told, it was a remarkably accurate summation of later findings. But still, the scientific community was silent.

Then, in 1972, at the invitation of the Society of Harvard Engineers and Scientists, Velikovsky returned to the site from which the original boycott was launched. His presentation produced a standing ovation. "I survived, as you see," he said. "I have been waiting for this evening for 22 years. I came here to find the young, the spirited, the men who have a fascination for discovery."

Also in 1972, a small student journal in Portland, Oregon called Pensée began publishing a series of full issues devoted to Velikovsky, with contributions from the pioneer himself. The Pensée series "Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered" recounted the history of the Velikovsky affair, bringing international attention to the scientific misbehavior involved, and reviewing space age findings lending support to Velikovsky's revolutionary thesis of planetary catastrophe. Clearly, it was time for a reassessment of Velikovsky's work, and the Pensée series produced a groundswell of interest in the Velikovsky debate. The first issue became the number one best seller on several college campuses and inspired stories in Readers Digest, Analog, Time, Newsweek, Physics Today, National Observer, and many other publications.

Now filled with optimism, Velikovsky began receiving numerous invitations from university campuses. The British Broadcasting Corporation produced a special documentary on Velikovsky, shown twice because of popular interest. The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation also showed a documentary on Velikovsky. And an international symposium was held in Toronto, Ontario. Velikovsky also gave a talk at the NASA Ames Research Center, suggesting experiments and procedures to test his claims.

For about two years after the appearance of "Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered," the scientific elite remained eerily quiet. The resurrection of a heretic, long presumed dead, seemed all too easy.

Then came a counterattack through the American Association for the Advancement of Science. America's largest scientific organization scheduled a symposium on Worlds in Collision for an "open discussion of Velikovsky." The proceedings of the 1974 San Francisco AAAS gathering would feature the popular astronomer Carl Sagan in a direct "debate" with Velikovsky.

The gathering had all the trappings of a media event, and like so many such events, it brought no clarity to the subject at all. Yet for years afterward it was dutifully remembered in mainstream journals as the "definitive refutation" of Velikovsky.

The AAAS meeting was the beginning of a relentless campaign against Velikovsky. In the years that followed, Sagan devoted a substantial section of each book he published to debunking Velikovsky. And science editors of newspapers across the country, no longer accustomed to looking up anything for themselves, simply reported what they were told by local astronomers: the Velikovsky question was now a dead issue.

Before he died in 1979, Velikovsky grew darkly pessimistic, telling those close to him that the battle was over, that the critics had won. Mainstream science, he said, would never permit an objective hearing on the subject of Worlds in Collision.

But in the awakening of public interest seven years earlier, something had occurred that Velikovsky did not anticipate. Even as the controversy faded into the background, a number of independent researchers labored quietly in their own fields, seeking out the remaining pieces of the puzzle Velikovsky had laid before them. Unanswered questions ranging from the role of electricity in the universe to the mysteries of Venus and the origins of ancient mythology would preoccupy these researchers for decades. For several of them, the investigation emerged as a life's work. Over the years they began to communicate with each other, then to actively collaborate, while developing quiet liaison with open-minded authorities in the sciences and in the study of the human past.

Today, almost fifty-five years after publication of Worlds in Collision, those who forged this independent inquiry WILL be heard. They are no longer dependent on established journals and academic institutions to gain a public hearing. Though the Internet is a "virtual-world" carnival, it is also an unprecedented vehicle for mobilizing communication. When official pronouncements are filled with misrepresentations, these CAN be answered. And people are now communicating with each other at lightning speed.

As for misrepresentations: David Morrison began by describing Velikovsky as a "loner" who would not submit his ideas for scholarly or scientific review. McCanney did not challenge the statement, but AGREED with it. Yet the assertion is LUDICROUS. Einstein discoursed with Velikovsky for years, and the two met privately at Einstein's residence innumerable times. Velikovsky took every opportunity to communicate directly with leading authorities in the sciences. Without this diligence the astronomers Bargmann and Motz (noted above) would never have called for an open consideration of Velikovsky's hypothesis. Of course there were many who already "knew" that Velikovsky could not be correct, but others responded with personal meetings and extended correspondence. The preeminent French archaeologist Claude Schaeffer certainly saw SOMETHING in Velikovsky's claims. Their communication spanned years. On the vital issue of dating ancient cultures, Schaefer wrote to Velikovsky, "You will be the first among those who get the information before my publication I am not concerned with opinions and chronological schemes, but only with the advance of our knowledge."

The distinguished Harvard historian Robert Pfeifer, former chairman of the Department of Semitic Languages at Harvard, showed a strong personal interest in Velikovsky's work and took personal initiative on his behalf. Well before the publication of Velikvosky's Ages in Chaos, Pfeiffer wrote in 1942, "I regard this work--provocative as it is--of fundamental importance." And in 1945: "I am firmly convinced that the publication of this book would be of immense value to historical studies."

Velikovsky's ability to anticipate scientific discovery produced a surprising statement from the renowned geologist Harry Hess, chairman of the Department of Geology at Princeton, with whom Velikovsky conversed continuously. In an open letter to Velikovsky in 1963, Hess wrote: "Some of these predictions were said to be impossible when you made them. All of them were predicted long before proof that they were correct came to hand. Conversely, I do not know of any specific prediction you made that has since been proven to be false. I suspect the merit lies in that you have a good basic background in the natural sciences and you are quite uninhibited by the prejudices and probability taboos which confine the thinking of most of us."

Other scientists and social scientists that showed deep interest in Velikovsky's work included astronomer Walter S Adams; archaeologist Cyrus Gordon; and Horace Kallen, one of America's most respected scholars. In 1950, when Worlds in Collision came out, Kallen was a personal friend of Harlow Shapley, the Harvard astronomer who led the original scientific attack on Velikovsky. But later, Kallen recounted Shapley's role in the "Velikovsky Affair," and he ridiculed the hasty and pretentious manner in which the defenders of orthodoxy had dismissed Velikovsky's hypothesis.

Kallen's biting criticism of scientific dogmatism is every bit as appropriate today as it was 30 years ago. In the debate with McCanney, Morrison opined that Velikovsky may have sounded intelligent to the untrained, but that when you look more closely, "nothing is there." Velikovsky was "simply wrong," said Morrison, "demonstrably wrong."

Here, on the other hand, is the opinion of the two authors of Thunderbolts of the Gods, each having investigated the thesis of Worlds in Collision for more than three decades. David Talbott and Wallace Thornhill write: "The authors of this book believe that Velikovsky was incorrect on many particulars, some of them crucial to a proper understanding of ancient events. But his place among the great pioneers of science will be secure if he was correct on the underlying tenets"

Talbott and Thornhill do not accept Velikovsky's specific chronology of events, and they place the age of planetary upheaval just prior to the flowering of monumental civilization, which they see as a creative act of human REMEMBERING. Rather than declare Velikovsky to be categorically "right" or "wrong", they cite these claims as crucial to any assessment of Velikovsky's contribution to science--

1. The present order of the planets is new. In geologically recent times the planetary system was unstable, and at least some planets moved on much different courses than they do today.

2. Erratic movements of the planets led to global catastrophe on Earth.

3. Through rigorous cross-cultural comparison of the ancient traditions, an investigator can reconstruct the celestial dramas.

One more principle must also be included, according to the authors. Velikovsky said that the key to reconciling his claims with scientific theory would be ELECTROMAGNETISM, a force in which astronomers and cosmologists had no interest in 1950. He stated that if the Sun and the planets are not the "electrically neutral" bodies astronomers assume, then even "the law of gravitation must come into question."

In the years since Velikovsky wrote these words, a new perspective has emerged from space age discovery. A universe teeming with charged particles-the "Electric Universe" of Wallace Thornhill and others -- is redefining everything we see in space. But you would not know this by listening to David Morrison, whose words still echo the electrically inactive, purely gravitational 1950's vision of the heavens.

The electrical theorists say that the picture of the universe has changed, and all of the theoretical sciences will give way to a revolution in human understanding. The authors of Thunderbolts of the Gods summarize the new view in these words:

"From the smallest particle to the largest galactic formation, a web of electrical circuitry connects and unifies all of nature, organizing galaxies, energizing stars, giving birth to planets and, on our own world, controlling weather and animating biological organisms. There are no isolated islands in an 'electric universe.'"

(Excerpt.)


61 posted on 10/07/2006 8:37:32 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)
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To: Lurker
Synthesizing the stuff would be loads cheaper than trying to import it from asteroids.

No way are we going to import oil from Titan, etc. The importance of oil in such places is as a source of hydrocarbons for space industry itself. Hydrogen and carbon are two elements that human colonists would need in large quantities. Having a "local" source would be hugely advantageous.

62 posted on 10/07/2006 8:54:51 PM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: webheart

Ian't methane CH4?


63 posted on 10/07/2006 8:56:30 PM PDT by 31R1O ("Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life."- Immanuel Kant)
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To: 31R1O

Ian't=Isn't


64 posted on 10/07/2006 8:57:04 PM PDT by 31R1O ("Science is organized knowledge. Wisdom is organized life."- Immanuel Kant)
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To: Fred Nerks
Sounds like someone has a 'hot' prospect they are hawking.

While documented impact structures can enhance production in the area of the impact, that is a structural phenomenon more than some cosmic dustball loading the formation with hydrocarbons.

Cataclysmic events may lead to the sort of massive die-offs which preserve vast numbers of unoxidized dead critters in sediment, leading to the chemical environments which can cause hydrocarbons to form, granted, but that enhances fossilization.

As for "rare" fossils in rocks, I doubt the writer has looked at many drilled samples.

I have described well over 100 miles of wellbore samples in my career, most from 10 foot sample intervals, and the (nonvolcanic) ones without fossil remains are the exception, not the rule.

65 posted on 10/07/2006 9:09:29 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Strategerist
Basically every abiogenic petroleum fanboy on FR I've run across LITERALLY believes the theory they're arguing against is that oil comes from "dinosaurs" - I'm the last person you should be lecturing on understanding the theories of others.
Right back at you. I don't LITERALLY believe the biogenic origin model is that oil comes from "dinosaurs". It's clear you like to dump on fellow FReepers, so I feel free to ignore you.
66 posted on 10/07/2006 9:24:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Fred Nerks

Hmmmm... are we revisiting Velikovsky? Looks like it.


67 posted on 10/07/2006 9:24:56 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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http://www.gasresources.net/DisposalBioClaims.htm

http://tigger.uic.edu/~mansoori/Diamondoids.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/energy-tech-04ze.html
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2006/august9/chevron-080906.html


68 posted on 10/07/2006 9:25:06 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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[iridium in heavy petroleum found at 18,900 ft and 22,781 ft.]

Principle Results Of The Major Scientific Investigations For
Hydrocarbons In The Swedish Deep Gas Exploration Project
J. F. Kenney
http://www.gasresources.net/SwedenProjectResults.htm

"...Specifically to clear up misunderstandings of such, here are reported the following... The observation of thermophilic, chemo-synthesizing, hydrocarbon-metabolizing bacteria at depths in the granite exceeding 3,000 meters... A heavy petroleum fluid was observed on several instances during the drilling of Gravberg 1, once during the Summer of 1986 and again during the Winter of 1989. The material was a heavy, black petroleum fluid characterized by a strong, pungent smell, and became popularly known as the Gravberg 1 'Black Gunk'. As with the observations of hydrocarbon gases and in absence of proper controls or monitoring, there arose almost at once argument over the origin of the so-called 'Black Gunk' material. Among other hypotheses was offered a suggestion that the petroleum material might have resulted from some extraordinary transformation of such as soy bean oil or organic alcohols as are found in such drilling fluid additives as 'Torque Trim'. In order possibly to eliminate such uncertainties, we had several samples of the Gravberg 1 'Black Gunk', taken respectively from the well depths 18,900 ft. and 22,781 ft., analyzed for unusual presence of the mantle marker Iridium. The results of the Iridium abundance measurements, which were carried out by Dr. Frank Asaro and Dr. Helen Michels at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory using neutron activation techniques... As the data reflects, the Iridium content in the Gravberg 1 'Black Gunk' from both depths manifested very high abundances of Iridium. The abundances of Iridium at both depths was greater by at least two orders of magnitude from such found in crustal rock and was greater even than the measured values for Ir in MORB available at the time. As a cross check, particularly in light of the fact that the Siljan Ring is a meteorite impact structure, several measurements of the Iridium abundance were made in local rocks. Those measurements established that the local rocks from the Siljan Ring do not contain unusual abundance of Iridium and that the Iridium in the Gravberg 1 'Black Gunk' could not have originated either from shallow local rock or from any drilling fluid chemical additive."


69 posted on 10/07/2006 9:29:05 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Swordmaker

"...are we revisiting Velikovsky?"

Well...it seems to me when someone can't win a point any other way, the inclination is to throw his name in the ring as some sort of insult...it's just a cheap, somewhat disgusting way of calling someone they do not agree with, a crackpot.

And I refuse to let it stand.

Wanna know why?

Because, without fail, every one I come across has NEVER read a book the good man wrote.


70 posted on 10/07/2006 9:40:55 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)
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To: Swordmaker

It happens all the time...


So tell me, have you read Worlds in Collision? Earth In Upheaval? or Ages in Chaos? Or don't you need to read a book to know a theory is wrong or the author is nuts?

http://www.thunderbolts.info/velikovsky-ghost.htm



16 posted on 10/09/2005 7:40:43 PM PDT by Fred Nerks


71 posted on 10/07/2006 9:44:12 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)
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The Search For Mantle Markers;
Examination Of The Gravberg 1 "Black Gunk."
J. F. Kenney
http://www.gasresources.net/MantleMarkers(Hannover).htm

"The startling increase in the iridium abundance from the sample taken from approximately 19,000 feet to that taken at about 22,000 feet, which amounts to almost a doubling of that abundance, argues persuasively against any suggestion that the iridium observed in the black gunk originated from the meteor impact at the surface of the Earth. From these arguments it might appear that we should conclude that this truly extraordinary amount of the very rare element, iridium, must have originated in the mantle of the Earth. Not so; for such conclusion would be premature. In order to come to a definitive conclusion, one must investigate exhaustively all possible sources of contamination of iridium from any source(s) other than the rock and fluids in the well. This subject is taken up briefly in the following section... These startling results demand further investigation. When one is dealing with measurements of a substance in such extremely small trace quantities as a few parts per trillion, or a few per 10-12, the greatest problem is, after having detected the material which is the subject of the search, to make certain that the subject material detected is not a result of contamination, either of the original sample or of the test equipment and procedure."


72 posted on 10/07/2006 9:48:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (If I had a nut allergy, I'd be outta here. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Fred Nerks
Gold and a crew drilled in a meteorite crater in Sweden. The place already had petroleum seeps and gas. It was in basement rock that they drilled. They found a lot of oil, but the problem there was that it was filled with lots of tiny magnetite crystals, similar to that formed by microbes. The results of their drilling supported both the contention that petroleum came from deep abiogenic sources as well as the claim that the slight left-hand rotation of light seen in petroleum is caused by a biogenic source that feeds on oil. Here's a neat article with an interview with Gold at the end. I have a couple of emails from Gold in my email archive. It's a pity he's passed on. His website is no longer operative. Fortunately, I downloaded everything there before it was removed.
73 posted on 10/07/2006 9:56:36 PM PDT by aruanan
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To: Fred Nerks
So tell me, have you read Worlds in Collision? Earth In Upheaval? or Ages in Chaos?

I've read and re-read all of them.

I think Velikovsky had many things right...

I am also the Freeper most likely to post articles from the Thunderbolts site.

74 posted on 10/07/2006 10:22:25 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Strategerist
Well, considering the billions of tons of diatoms that have lived and died on the earth in the last couple hundred millions of years, it's still far cheaper to simply pump the petroleum resulting from them out of the ground.

Or, perhaps, like biomass today, the biomass of the billions of tons of diatoms were contemporaneously recycled into more diatoms???

75 posted on 10/07/2006 10:33:48 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE is "AAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: aruanan; SunkenCiv

Thanks! from your link:

In the Swedish experiment, he also saw vindication of his related - and possibly more fruitful - theory of the deep hot biosphere. One of the arguments that geologists use to point to biological sources for oil is that some oil molecules look very much like molecules found in living cells. But Gold has turned this argument on its head, interpreting the telltale molecules as signs that there is life feeding on the hydrocarbons deep below us, not constituting them. Instead of dead creatures turning into hydrocarbons when buried (the source of the term fossil fuels), Gold says the hydrocarbons are fuel on which creatures buried in the Earth's depths survive.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.07/gold_pr.html


76 posted on 10/08/2006 12:51:36 AM PDT by Fred Nerks (ENEMY + MEDIA = ENEMEDIA)
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To: John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
Did all the dinosaurs in the world herd themselves to the middle east and die there?

There is oil all over the world. We've already extract most of our "easy" oil, and what is left is more costly to produce than the Saudi oil that can be produced for about five bucks a barrel.

77 posted on 10/08/2006 6:25:05 AM PDT by dirtboy (Good fences make good neighbors)
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To: SunkenCiv

There used to be a report on the web about the petroleum material found at the bottom of Gold's well in the Siljan Ring. The report was commissioned by the Swedish government and done by a small group of professional geologists and geochemists.

The report gave the concentrations of various source-indicative steranes in the petroleum from Gold's well and in the shales in the area, many of which overlie the basement rocks and may well have been mixed into the basement rocks by the meteor impact. The steranes in the petroleum found in Gold's well matched the steranes in the shales. This suggests that the source of the petroleum was the shales. That was what the report concluded, if I remember correctly.

If you take shales that naturally contain small amounts of organic matter and heat them to high temperatures in the laboratory, you will form oil in a reasonable amount of time. Petroleum geochemists do this in the laboratory to study what kinds and amounts of oil will be formed by those particular shales. They do this to evaluate the shales as source rocks.

By heating the shale in the laboratory, the geochemist is simulating the effect of burial at depth over geologic time on the organic matter in the shale. What might take millions of years at the temperatures encountered by the shale during burial can be achieved in days and weeks in the lab at much higher temperatures. The geochemist is utilizing the Arrhenius equation to achieve in a relatively short amount of time what nature does at lower temperatures over longer periods of time.

In any event, the Swedish government didn't start drilling additional wells like mad in the Siljan Ring after Gold's well. The petroleum found in Gold's well was not a commercially viable source of oil, whatever it's origin.


78 posted on 10/08/2006 6:47:48 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: Fred Nerks; thackney
It's the rare "rock" that has no oxygen and hydrogen in its structure.. Could be isomers of oxygen and hydrogen(petro chemicals) is a natural occurrence except they don't "harden" like "rocks"... but remain liquid and accumulate by some "process" unknown.. like veins of specific elements(within rock formations).. Some isomers are liquid some are not.. especially with hydro carbons.. What is oil but hydrogen, oxygen and carbon "mixed" in various isometric forms.. With rocks other elements are thrown in.. that causes them to "harden"..
79 posted on 10/08/2006 7:48:56 AM PDT by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole.)
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To: dirtboy
What you say is the propaganda of the oil companies. There is more oil in America that is not being taped than the public know of. There are more wells in Texas that have been drilled gushed and capped. With the myth of running out of oil and low supply drives up the cost of oil the more money they make. Why do you think that refineries are not being built and even shut down? I live in Kansas and two refineries have been shut down one in Wichita and one in Eldorado. Less supply more money. Follow the money and find those who are to blame. It's about time that the car companies and the oil companies be brought up on charges of collusion to hold the American public in this stanglehold they have us in. I recently looked into getting a E85 car and the supply of them is almost nil here in America yet if you do a search you will find that Ford GM have been building and shipping them everywhere but here.
80 posted on 10/08/2006 2:17:27 PM PDT by John 6.66=Mark of the Beast?
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