Posted on 05/18/2007 9:06:58 AM PDT by Jakarta ex-pat
So did the Russians...they sent home the toilets they liberated while doing their part in defeating Germany...apparently they didn't realize they need the piping as well. The muslims probably didn't learn that lesson because they don't read anything but revised muslim history.
If you wouldn’t mind, I’d like to know more. FReepmail me, if you must...
Thanks for taking the trouble!
Ow. My brain hurts.
For them “atheism was life-affirming in a way that religion can never be,” according to Dawkins. That kind of affirmation we can do without.
Will agree to disagree with you. For me, there is too much organization, harmony, beauty and complexity in this world for there not to be a God. Evolution has never been proven.
Alright- I’ll briefly go over what happened-
Went into hospital due to Crohn’s- the disease had progressed to the point of being hospitalized- Docs didn’t realize the disease had perforated stomach- Had peritonitis which caused the fever. I remember telling my mother that I was going to throw up- she grabbed a bed pan- room started spinnin and they tel me the docs rushed my folks out of room, and they soaked me with icewater, held down tongue while I was in convulsions etc. They tell me they had to revive me.
While out of it, I had very vivid visions of dropping into hell, being engulfed by sand to where it filled nostrils, mouth, lungs. The heat was itnense (probably a feeling due to the fever) and I remember ants just covering me and further suffocating me. I remember trying to swipe them off but I couldn’t move. Then I sensed a presence, and looked up and saw my mother descending into hell as well. I remember crying because I didn’t want her to experience this and I started yelling at God. Then God silenced me with a booming voice and He said “I’m goign to give you a test”- that’s all He said- A gong began and I surmised I was supposed to coutn the sounds (Don’t aks why- A lot of hwat I experienced didn’t make sense) So anyways, I kept up with hte sounds for a while, but htey got faster and faster, and I remeber breaking down and weeping because I failed. Then, the voice said “Don’t worry, you don’t exist” And I felt an overpowering feeling of nothingness.
This last part- right before Docs revived me, was probably what shook me the most. It’s hard to describe, but the nothingness involved a realization of existence, but complete seperation and the knowledge that nothign I could do was going to undo it.
Now, As I said, I’m not convinced one way or hte otehr what actually happened- whether it was neurons or out of body or perhaps even a mix of hte two I don’t know for sure. Now, obviously what I experienced was not entirely biblical, and some might be explained by what the Docs were doing as they worked on me- they may have been talking to me asking me to respond- maybe making a gong like sound somehow- I’ll never know for sure. I’m not even sure how long I was ‘gone’ for- All I know for sure was that I experienced a glimpse of Hell, and that was enough for me. The bible states that we will have all our senses, and believe me, every sense was being assaulted. The sound was overpowering (before the test), the smell was overpowering, and so on.
Now, I’d like to point out just for the sake of being interesting, that althoiugh I’d been a Christian for awhiule, I hadn’t known much at all about Hell other than it was somewhere you don’t want to go. I’m pointing htis out because what I experienced couldn’t have come from any forknowledge, yet what I described is similiar to what other NDE folks explain when they had hell visions (I hesistate to call them visitations)
While all this is interesting, and makes for good party banter, Again, even the experts are unceretain about what actually takes place- They obviously know that neurons do play a part, but it’s speculation to suggest that everyone having the same experiences do so simply because the neurons affect certain regions of the brain. It’s plausible to suggest that, but it’s also not reasonable to dismiss other suggestions, even the spiritual, as well.
But anyway- briefly, that was my experience. Not that we should read too much into it.
Ah but this is exactly what seperates Christianity (True Christianity- not those hwo claim to be Christian yet deny Christ is the way) from other religions. We don’t simply read about God, We get to know Him personally because He delights in persoanlly interacting with His Children. As Your exam-ple points out, it’s one thing to know aBOUT God, yet an entirely different thing to actually know God, which is what happens the moment you accept Christ. Believign in God is much different than knowing God. Many believe in God, yet Few have actually obeyed Him and come to Him in the way He demands so as to know God on a personal level.
Thank you very much. It’s interesting to have known your account, from the person who experienced it first hand. Although I don’t know what to make of it, I want to ask you if you’ve ever kept the radio on at night while sleeping, and experienced parts of talk shows melding into your dreams? I have, and they are fascinating. When it’s a scene describing something happy and peaceful in the radio, your dream metamorphasises to the same. When it’s violence, again, the dream turns to a nightmare.
I don’t know what you must read of this, but I’d suggest you try this every night for a week, and tell me if this happens to you too, or not. News shows works best. Audiobooks might too. I believe the next step in entertainment won’t be anything to appease our physical senses like sound and vision. I’ll be direct or simple indirect neural interaction, where the brain is the primary entertainment equipment.
Science doesn’t work on proofs it works on evidence. Evolution is one of many theories trying to explain the biological diversity on this planet but its the one with the most evidence in its favor.
[I believe the next step in entertainment won’t be anything to appease our physical senses like sound and vision. I’ll be direct or simple indirect neural interaction, where the brain is the primary entertainment equipment.]
Interesting- I can see that happening. I like to drink a lot of tea right before bed, and listen to sounds of waterfall lol But seriously, that does sound interesting- I’ve never slept with a radio on. I’ve never dreamed really well, and now I’ve got sleep apnea which prevents me from getting into REM sleep and staying there- currently waiting on a BiPap machine- but insurance is having a fit over it.
170: [Evolution is one of many theories trying to explain the biological diversity on this planet but its the one with the most evidence in its favor.]
I need to correct that to [Evolution is one of many theories trying to explain the biological diversity on this planet but its the one with the most evidence that people interpret and coem up with their own personal beliefs based on a priori belief.]
If every living organism shows signs of design, the ID is the hypothesis with the most evidence pointing toward a logical hypothesis. If ID shows irreducible complexity, and demonstrates that design breaks down when mucked with, then evolution Hypothesis has a lot of explaining to do. The holes that plague evolution are numerous and serious, and to state that evolution has the most evidence going for it is simply not correct- Every evidence discovered is systematically interpreted to be of an evolutionary nature despite having serious problems that would argue against that being the case. A few anectdotal evidences that are interpreted to indicate a line of thought aren’t enough to shore up a Hypothesis. Folsk will show one animal, and then another, and suggest that because they share similiar but differing appendeges or organs, that they must have evolved one from another- But what we’re not told is that for the very few similiarities, there are billions of differences. We’re told Chimps share “99%” of human DNA code, (although the percentage is very much in doubts- some figures go as low as only 85% similiar) What were not told is that the remaining percentage differs by billions in the code. That’s a powerful lot of ‘mutations’ to account for common descent. How long did it take to make up that billions of differences? Anyway- we could spend a few pages discussing anectdotal evidences and suggest that they are strong indicators or weak indicators of a Hypothesis, but it amounts to a diversionary tactic that attempts to avoid the question of biological impossibilities in the evolutionary process. Is there a lot of evidences? Sure, Are they conclusive or even detailed enough to strongly point to evolution? No- Some may have a different opinion, but it’s just that, an opinion devoid of evidences conclusive enough to back them up.
A good United Methodist comeback, being that they are mostly nonbelievers as you are.
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