Posted on 06/22/2007 6:26:41 AM PDT by yankeedame
I find it particularly bizarre and ironic coming from a US Republican, but there we go.I may be going out on a limb here, but it seems like you are British and I would further guess, secular. Unlike British conservatives, American conservatives are mostly Christian. From my perspective, just about all of Western Europe is a perfect object lesson for the dangers of secularization, and England is no exception. England is spiraling into destruction and there is nothing that the party elites - liberal or conservatives - can do to stop it until people at the grass roots get down on their knees and turn to God.
I just don’t understand why so many on this site focus so intently on Britain’s faults, when America’s are so clear for all to see.
I think you need to reread my original post again. Here is a relevant excerpt: "He chronicals the predominately white underclass in England and shows that they suffer from the same pathologies as the black underclass in the United States."
Although I did not dwell on the point, many in America point out that the cause of poverty is the breakdown of marriage. But in America that gets caught up in black/white racial issues. The nice thing about England, and Dalyrmple's book, is that you can take race out of the equation and just focus on the self-destructive nature of poverty.
As to our spiraling out of control, we still have far lower serious crime (rape, murder etc) rates than the US, and I just don’t quite see how higher church attendance makes yours a better society (Have you watched MTV lately?!)? Seriously though, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.
It is useful to remove race from the equation where poverty is concerned, but clearly black Americans and native Britons are markedly different peoples in every way imaginable, and where does your white underclass fit in?
I do, however, agree that marriage is key to stopping the rot, though the fact that the US has both higher church attendance and a higher divorce rate than Britain, begs further questions.
Anthony Daniels, who writes under his own name and the pen name Theodore Dalrymple, is a serious man treating serious subjects — too uncommon these days. You can find samples of his work here, keyworded with anthonydaniels, dalrymple, or theodoredalrymple.
Of course you’ll find areas of disagreement, but IMHO he’s always worth reading.
Well Ma’am, why don’t we have a conversation about it? Tell me how the world’s sense of morality is superior to America’s.
England has worst crime rate in world
"England and Wales have the highest crime rate among the world's leading economies, according to a new report by the United Nations.
The survey, which is likely to prove embarrassing to David Blunkett, the Home Secretary. shows that people are more likely to be mugged, burgled, robbed or assaulted here than in America, Germany, Russia, South Africa or any other of the world's 20 largest nations. Only the Dominican Republic, New Zealand and Finland have higher crime rates than England and Wales."
Certain groups in England may be thus impoverished but Christopher Hitchens certainly isn't, nor English film-makers who are currently the world's best, nor many, many others.
Mr Evans,
I have never suggested for one moment that America’s sense of morality is inferior to that of any other nation, nor will I ever do so - it may surprise you to learn that I am actually a strong supporter of the U.S. I do however find it tedious and slightly reckless that so many people on this site refuse to accept that America is not purer than the driven snow, and elements of your exported culture (eg. “gangster rap”, the compensation culture etc) is certainly not appreciated in Europe. I’m not trying to insult you, I’m just speaking the truth as I see it. Though I must point out that there is much to like about the U.S.
I don’t think it fair to point fingers at Britain’s underclass, simply because the sheer scale of poverty to be seen in New Orleans and other such places is at a level that we are unacquainted with over here, and tend to find disconcerting.
As to crime. Yes, we do have a massive problem, but like I said, serious crime (murder, rape, etc) pales into insignificance when compared to that of the U.S, and as the article you reference points out, and as I am sure you are aware, there are question marks over such statistics, frequently because many nations like to massage these figures for political reasons, and because others have different points at which they count something as being a crime - from the actual reporting of an offense to the conviction. I spend several months each year in a continental country where there is claimed to be very little crime, yet what actually goes on (and isn’t even reported in the media) is frankly terrifying.
To be honest, with some of the odd views many on this site have of Britain (whites being the minority is the most amusing - we’re 94% white), I think they would be staggered (some disappointed perhaps) by what a beautiful and thriving island it actually is, and how the natives (believe it or not) are still managing to function quite well!;) I am well aware of the problems we, just like the rest of the western world, are facing, but this country is incredible, and I have every right to defend it.
Anyway, as I said at the beginning, I have no intention of insulting America, it is a truly great nation which has far more positive aspects than negative, and which I admire much more than I’m sure you imagine.
I am very pleased that you do not belong to the Hate America Club and I’m glad that you saw through that bogus United Nations crime report that I posted. Yes, Americans do have a sense of humor.
The UN rankles Americans more than any other organization. How could anyone take seriously any report from an body that had Libya and Sudan chairing a “Human Rights Commission”. Who would believe a report that claims England has a crime rate four times worse than South Africa or Russia, the murder capitals of the world?
For many years Americans have listened to tinpot dictators from Africa to Asia scolding America while they treat their own people like cattle.
What also bothers us just as much is that it seems the Americans who are honored in Europe are the worst of us. Maybe gangsta’ rap hasn’t caught on with the European elite but it is the leftist America haters, the depraved Hollywood directors who are handed the awards at Cannes.
I don’t know if crime in Britain has become worse than the US but I do know one thing, it is much worse by two orders of magnitude than it was 100 years ago. The reason why is politically incorrect. Crime is committed by a small percentage of the population. Hardcore criminals commit hundreds on crimes during their lives. What has America always had that Britain hasn’t? What is Britain (and France) importing now that it had few of before? It doesn't take many of them to cause a lot of mayhem.
I reside in the buckle of the Bible Belt; most people I know and associate with go to church on a regular basis and you can tell.
I agree.
“I reside in the buckle of the Bible Belt; most people I know and associate with go to church on a regular basis and you can tell.”
Yes, indeed I can! Though why you feel it qualifies you to label England “basically morally bankrupt” is anyone’s guess and, to be honest, it doesn’t sound overly Christian or well-informed.
I was educated at a Church of England boarding school where I was given religious instruction by a wonderful Chaplain who prided himself on sending his girls out into the world with strong moral values and an open minded view of other’s religious beliefs. Essentially, he taught us that good people are good people. That’s all that should ever matter.
Hi again - sorry for the delay.
The UN is a disgrace.
The arts in Europe have always been drawn to the seedier side of life (they also exult their homegrown embarrassments), but it doesn’t really reflect how ordinary people, particularly those in Britain, view America.
I would say that genuine anti-Americans in Britain are not too strong in numbers - even those who disagree with the foreign policy of the current US administration still view Americans as family, and most admit that the US is a good country more than anything else. It will probably surprise you but it’s the liberal influences of American culture (affirmative action, the compensation culture etc) that seem to bother people most on a day to day basis, just as it does Americans themselves. As a point of interest: in England (Wales and Scotland aside) conservative voters are in the majority (have been for the past 60 years), and so there is a natural bias in favour of America, it’s just no one ever asks our opinion!
I do agree with your view on the cause of the staggering rise in crime... to a degree. I just can’t help but look to the predominantly respectable Indians and West Indians who came to Britain decades ago because they wanted to raise their children in a conservative country. They were already intimately acquainted with our culture, and many were considered more “British than the British”. But the liberals, as usual, have failed the very people they purport a desire to help.
Ironically, the very thing that could have genuinely helped prevent the current situation, was abolished around the same time that immigration began. Fortunately, politicians are increasingly discussing the possibilities of reintroducing national service, and I believe that that (alongside a halt on immigration) could solve a multitude of problems. Just got to shift Gordon Brown... !
I've always wondered why liberal politics seem to be infecting the Western World everywhere the same way. I believe it is because these liberals tend to compare notes and push for similar agendas everywhere. I would hope it isn't because people look to US liberalism as an example of how to do things.
God, I hope not.
:)
Bit of both. Ours often get seduced by those in America. For example, years back when politically correct names for different ethnic groups became fashionable in the U.S (African Americans etc)our little darlings were tying themselves in knots trying to come up with equivalents. Didn’t have much luck though. For a start most Brits like to call a spade a spade, and if you suggested to someone from a West Indian background that they were African or vice versa, you’d probably lose your teeth!!!!
But you’re right - I think they have secret meetings where they dream up ways to frustrate us all! Oh well, onward and upward!
That is besides the point. The point that I have been making is the number one cause of poverty is culture, most particularly, the breakdown of marriage. The only reason England is even remotely interesting is that it is an overwhelmingly white country, thus you can talk about poverty without race entering the equation.
Sorry about getting off topic. I couldn't agree more...but it's more fundamental than the breakdown of marriage. Plenty of people with fine work-habits and an appreciation of civilization do not descend into poverty and child abandonment following the break-up of a relationship.
Yup, good point. I tend to focus on marriage because it is so visible, but it goes deeper. Work ethic, appreciation for education, ability to forego current pleasures for greater rewards in the future, etc...
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