Chertoff should take a deep breath

Montreal Gazette ^ | Friday, July 13, 2007 | Editorial

[GMMAC]

In a nutshell the opposition to increased documentation from both sides of the Can-Am border is twofold:

1. It's 'feel good' added bureaucracy that works from the assumptions that terrorists and criminals won't simply obtain false and/or stolen documents and that law abiding types won't be unduly inconvenienced by measures which, in reality, will accomplish little beyond allowing both national governments to sell more passports & create additional unionized public sector employment.

2. In the unlikely event it does in any way slightly increase border security, this benefit will be more than offset by creating a costly bottleneck for cross-border commerce (we are each others largest trading partners) and stifling tourism/recreational based businesses on both sides of the border.

The real solution is of course intensified profiling. It's not as if we don't know the demographic which matches those responsible for 95+% of all terrorist outrages worldwide for now over 4 decades.

Those who advocate shutting down the Can-Am border ignore not only financial realities but also the countless families with branches on both of its sides as well as numerous other positive interpersonal connections. And that Canada currently has Troops suffering casualties in Afghanistan precisely because we too lost citizens on 9/11 in the WTC.

[devolve]

.

I have a cousin still living where first Quakers settled and the endless pages she sent to me she personally researched made my eyes glaze over

She goes to cemeteries to check out gravestones to find and verify and connect links and sent in many family names to the Whipple GenWebSite

The Noah Whipple book is where I first found my name recorded in print

Intersting that Samuel Walker who worked with Samuel Colt to design the huge Walker Colt Model 1847 Army revolver for use in the war with Mexico was actually related to Col. Colt too

I’m not sure if he had relatives in Pennsylvania

[potlatch]

[She goes to cemeteries to check out gravestones to find and verify and connect links]

You have another friend on the forum who does this often, besides spending hours in the libraries of any historic city.

I think many who live in the northeast amidst the ‘beginnings of our country’ become more interested in genealogy than we down in the bottom of Texas.

But - I could be wrong -—!

[GMMAC]

You'd have to show me how passport logic differs from gun control logic to win me over.

This is all just another wrinkle (so to speak) on strip-searching grandma so we don't offend Abdul.

Forget passports and PROFILE, PROFILE, PROFILE !!!

Look at the case of the "Lackawanna/Buffalo Six" busted on the U.S. side.
The whole Can-Am North-East is on a shared hydroelectric grid and the Niagara power stations on our side are actually larger and were among their potential targets but, you don't see us demanding closure of the Peace Bridge, etc.

[BobS]

I skinny-dipped next to Urquehart Castle on Loch Ness. Our pee-pees are still where they belong. Nessie didn’t like the way we shaved and bathed in that glacial lake. It is very deep and there are big fish there. Hang your clothes on the berry bushes, climb over a bunch of rocks. And suddenly go straight down if you want to. I love that place and the Scots that run it.

[devolve]

.

Right!

Passports for Canadians

But Poncho will still stroll across the US border (or tunnel under the Border Patrol!) and with drugs and meth to add so much of their “culture”

Over 25% of federal convicts are Mexican illegal aliens yet only 12 million illegals are in the USA?

I’d venture to say the numbers of Canadians in American prisons are tiny and extremely rare -

Ever get robbed, kidnapped or murdered when you drive into Canada up to Toronto?

What’s with ignoring a 3rd World Invasion and punishing The Great White North?

Hey George Bush - Did you have a Mexican illegal alien Nanny or a Canadian you smuggled in and illegally hired?

[varon]

Chertoff should take a deep breath

Chertoff told the Chicago Tribune this week that he has a "gut feeling" that the U.S. faces an increased risk of terror attack this summer.

Chertoff needs to take Ex-Lax, a dump or something. When reporting about the state of our nation's security I expect more than commentary on his BM or the lack of!!!

[WOSG]

“You’d have to show me how passport logic differs from gun control logic to win me over.”

You’d have to show me how crossing international boundaries remotely resembles owning a firearm to clue me in to what to me is a very inapt analogy.

Simple questions:
1) Do we have the right to control who crosses our borders?

2) if “Yes” to #1, how on earth will you be able to control
who crosses our borders without demanding a form of identification?

[potlatch]

Bump!

[WOSG]

Both arguments have been made by opponents of the wall and better border security with Mexico.

“Those who advocate shutting down the Can-Am border “

Which includes exactly ... nobody.

[GMMAC]

"... clue me in to what to me is a very inapt analogy. "

Both gun control laws & the passport requirement are 'feel good' measures aimed at law-abiding types & are predicated on the same ridiculous assumption that terrorists/criminals aren;t going to work around them.

"... how on earth will you be able to control who crosses our borders without demanding a form of identification?"

You seem to be under the impression that very similar regs aren't already in place.
Currently government-issued photo ID is absolutely required and, at least at the main crossing points, your vehicle license plate is auto-scanned before you can even roll down your window.
Everyone receives at least perfunctory questioning as to nationality, reason(s) for entry, etc. and - based upon my observations - considerably better than one car in ten is searched at - least to some degree.

[LiveFree99]

Sounds like a tip to the local media might be in order so they can do some, er, discreet investigating and videotaping of those hardworking DHS people.

[devolve]

Dunvegan    Slideshow

[potlatch]

Lol, Piper entered the world of Dunvegan. At least Nessie didn’t get him!

But I think I saw Chertoff swimming there!!

[devolve]

.

Piper is thinking “Where am I?”

[potlatch]

He did look puzzled, think he even turned both directions!!

[WOSG]

What is ‘feel good’ about passports? Nothing. They are a method to control our borders and identify entries and exits. It is both a right and responsibility of our sovereign Government to control our borders in order to protect us, and it certainly doesn’t impinge on any inherent rights.

“same ridiculous assumption that terrorists/criminals aren;t going to work around them.”
Whatever. They’ll probably work around our attempts at tracking them in other ways ... so, we shouldn’t track them? they work against our attempts to arrest them and confiscate their funding networks, so we shouldn’t try to do that either? That’s a non sequitor.

It’s a fact that 9/11 hijackers were picked to be Saudis because it was easier to get the visas to come here to USA. It’s also a fact that terrorist cells have been found in Canada, and multiple plots found in Britain. It would not be hard for ‘British citizens’ of ‘Asian origin’ to transit from Britain to Canada, and thence (without passport) to USA, without US officials knowing they are in this country.

Hypothetical? Only to those ‘surprised’ that Islamic doctors would have a plot to kill Britons.

“You seem to be under the impression that very similar regs aren’t already in place.
Currently government-issued photo ID is absolutely required”

“Everyone receives at least perfunctory questioning as to nationality, reason(s) for entry, etc. and - based upon my observations - considerably better than one car in ten is searched at - least to some degree.”

And you oppose this or agree with it? If you agree with it, then your complaints about passports are pretty hollow and amount to mere whining. it’s just a more rigorous and certain way of handling and managing the border, and the inconvenience of obtaining a passport is small. I’ve had one for 30 years, longer than I’ve had a driver’s license.

If you think its useless to do all these things on the border *and more*, I’ll mark you down as ‘clueless’. Millenium plot alone is reason enough to keep our guard up.
I know for certain that this is more useful than me and millions of Americans taking our shoes off at airports. (thanks for nothin’, Richard Reid!)

[Ramius]

I can only laugh at all this hyperventilating over Chertoff and his “gut feeling”. Yeesh.

Yah know what? I’ve got the same gut feeling. I think something is up. And you know what? I find it somewhat comforting to know that this guy who actually ~has~ access to the intel, is getting the same vibe I am.

Nothing specific. Just a vibe from the rhythm and tempo of things. Its a hunch.

So what? I actually like it that the guy would even say so. No, I don’t have anything to pin a story on, but the tempo gives me a hunch.

Yeesh. Would we rather that he gets this hunch and says nothing?
What a bunch of pansies we are.

[GMMAC]

Don't think I said anything which would lead to to presume I don't support existing border security measures - I merely don't see how what's essentially more of the same is going to amount to any real additional security.

As for proving each other's points, isn't the whole shoe removal thing, frisking geriatrics & all the rest of the shotgun approach nonsense a pretty poor substitute for legitimate profiling?

To me, the passport requirement is considerably more of a governmental cash-grab & an empty show of vigilance than anything that's truly going to do much for our safety. Plus, the last thing either nation's economy needs is any increase in the already existing cross-border bottleneck when it comes to trade.

With all due respect & without any patronization intended, is it possible your geographic proximity to America's apparently wide-open Southern frontier skews your perceptions as to her Northern one?

[WOSG]

I am all for profiling (intelligent profiling not mere racial profiling) where necessary and truly helpful to security. Frisking my MIL grandma with her prosthetic leg is a waste of time. I do consider the TSA to be at least 50% boondoggle, yet necessary to some extent. Frequent traveller should be able to get a ‘blue pass’ that identifies them and enables them to get through lines quickly.

My geographical location is less important than that I have been to Canada and many other countries, including Israel, a showcase for the need for border control. Funny, but other countries seem to survive with the concept of requiring passports at all borders. So too will the Can-USA border; they will still cross - in droves. I see nothing wrong with requiring every single person who crosses our border to have a passport, even if it is an added inconvenience/cost (as I note, its not a large one compared with others we go through).

Perhaps it is *your* proximity/location that is skewing *you*? :-)