Top Apollo Manager Opposes NASA's Moon Goal

Aviation Week ^ | 7/30/2007 | Craig Covault

[JamesP81]

If you and your like minded friends think it's a good idea then YOU pay for it.

I agree to your proposal so long as the folks that pay for it reap the benefits and you don't (at least not without fair compensation).

[RightWhale]

How’s that 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty repeal effort coming? Just about got it done?

[WyCoKsRepublican]

Required viewing for NASA and Sci Fi buffs before going any further MARS NEEDS WOMEN. Any questions?

[from occupied ga]

I agree to your proposal so long as the folks that pay for it reap the benefits and you don't (at least not without fair compensation).

Works for me. What benefits do you anticipate manned exploration will bring?

[from occupied ga]

How’s that 1967 UN Outer Space Treaty repeal effort coming? Just about got it done?

I thought that was what you were working on. Does anyone of any consequence pay any attention to the UN and their third world corruption?

[JamesP81]

Works for me. What benefits do you anticipate manned exploration will bring?

Short term, the exotic materials needed for a spacecraft will probably have numerous applications outside of space travel. Also, there will likely be innovative methods of generating and storing power which could have practical applications in eventually getting us off of middle eastern oil.

There will be other, as yet unknown long term benefits. However, the risk justifies the potential reward in my mind.

[from occupied ga]

Short term, the exotic materials needed for a spacecraft will probably have numerous applications outside of space travel

Possibly true; however, wouldn't corporations be motivated to produce exotic materials for profit anyway if there were a demonstrated market?

Also, there will likely be innovative methods of generating and storing power which

Power generation and storage is a pretty hot topic for research now. I suspect that people are going as fast as they can in this area already. It's just that I think that anything the government does costs about 100 times as much as private enterprise to reach the same end. We've had robot rovers on Mars now for what 2 years? and the longer they stay there the worse the place seems Cold less than 1% of the air pressure of the earth and all they've found is rocks dirt, dry ice and some water ice. Nobody wants to colonize antartica, and compared to Mars antartica is a tropical paradise with pretty much the same features -except for the dry ice. (And it has air and costs one HELL of a lot less to get there)

[RightWhale]

Sure, but as soon as I get an ear they open an FBI file on the Congressman. I could use some help in this rather than the continual chorus of ‘how dare they spend MY money’.

[from occupied ga]

Well there is one and only one candidate that wants to get us out of the UN - Ron Paul. I’d like to see us dump that bunch of thieving murdering barbarians and convert the building into a parking lot. Just think of how much research the money wasted on the UN by the usa would buy.

[RightWhale]

UN is nothing. Just some braying donkeys. They aren’t even a country. The UN is nothing but a distraction so the ordinary people won’t notice what the Rockefellers are actually up to.

[from occupied ga]

Just some braying donkeys

Well we're in agreement on the UN anyway. Expensive donkeys, though.

[billbears]

“I have been somewhat surprised to see the lack of active criticism of the administration’s vision for space exploration,” says Gavin in his letter to Aviation Week. “It seems to me to be more concerned with the 'how' as opposed to the 'why' he says

And not one thought of 'who'. As in 'who' should pay for it. Typical government nonsense. Let's see NASA budget, government fiddling around....maybe by 2050 they'll have sent one crew to Mars.

To visit the growing city already built by private industry 10 years earlier...

[RightWhale]

Very clever ruse by Rockefellers and other international bankers to not only distract us with such an ineffective institution but get us to pay for it.

[JamesP81]

Works for me. What benefits do you anticipate manned exploration will bring?

I don't know why I didn't think of this point earlier:

Let's forget any and all possible economic benefits. Hell, let's assume it's a drain and doesn't make money. Contrary to what the pure capitalists think, money isn't everything.

It's an issue of national security. Space is the ultimate high ground. Ultimately, the nation that controls space, colonizes the solar system, and builds the ships and infrastructure to do so will have domination and possibly mastery of this planet.

Would you prefer that mastery to belong to China, or the US?

[timer]

True. The impetus for a moon base is the chinese space program. In the 1960s it was the russian competitors that got our dander up. This moon base is sort of retro in that respect. The REAL problem though is retro thinking that chemical rockets are the only way to get to space. EMSL is vastly more efficient as an STS to LEO. Beyond that are several propulsion concepts even more superior, it’s just that nasa doesn’t want anything to rock the boat vis-a-vis the federal funding flow.

[from occupied ga]

Space is the ultimate high ground.

I've heard this before, and it just isn't so. It simply isn't true. Look at it this way. If orbit is good then moon is better, right? (according to your high ground analogy anyway) and if moon is better than mars or Jupiter would be better still, right? Wrong. Orbits and other planets are not high ground. they're gravitationally separated entities with their own gravity wells to climb out of and long transit times. A weapon launched from mars would have to be shipped to mars and then sent back - truly silly. Likewise the moon; it took the Apollo what 3 days one way to get to the moon?

Ultimately, the nation that controls space, colonizes the solar system, and builds the ships and infrastructure to do so will have domination and possibly mastery of this planet.

You've been reading too much scinece fiction (The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is science FICTION) and not a physics text Just for fun remember how long it took the Saturn probe to arrive at Saturn and what it had to do to get there (7 YEARS and 5 gravitational assists) This is because there is solar gravity and orbital speed to overcome. The Saturn probe couldn't carry enough fuel to get there on it's own and it surely couldn't carry enough fuel to get there and back . It takes about a year to get to Mars and that is the limit of what spacecraft can do without gravitational assist. I could go on, but either you see my point or you don't

Would you prefer that mastery to belong to China, or the US?

China like the USA has limited resources. Every dollar they spend on a boondoggle like manned space exploration is a dollar (or yen) that does not directly compete with the USA Let them waste their resources on it, and we'll be better spending our resources on things that matter (like energy independence).

[JamesP81]

You've been reading too much scinece fiction (The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is science FICTION)

Haven't read that one, actually.

Nevertheless, you're wrong. But this is still a free country so you can believe or not believe whatever you wish.

[from occupied ga]

But this is still a free country so you can believe or not believe whatever you wish.

You didn't understand it. Oh well. Try reading some of the web postings on the physics of space flight - energy requirements etc. They might surprise you.