Posted on 08/19/2007 5:35:20 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
Thank you for your support mate. It’s good to know that the sacrifices of my country’s military have been appreciated by some.
Regards,
UK
>> You are not fit to tie these ‘losers’ boot laces mate.
Really. So what /should/ I call a force that loses ground it took and controlled earlier, simply because they won’t go on the offensive, but instead crouch behind their defensive emplacements and handle the enemy with kid gloves?
Would you be happier if I called them “winners” instead? Very well, but they aren’t.
I’ve already acknowledged that it’s not the individual Brit soldier — I’m sure they’re fine courageous lads (most, anyway). No disrespect to the individuals intended. It’s your command structure and government and your politically-correct bootlicking of the Muzzies that’s to blame.
>> We should be thanking them, not attacking them.
What’s wrong with thanking them for their INITIAL aid, and attacking them for screwing up the mission?
‘cause that’s the reality of the situation.
As an American of Scots-I expected better than such, well frankly,rubbish (garbage to you).
We British have done a fine job in Iraq overall.Undoubtedly our tactics have not been 100% but no-one’s ever are.We have made mistakes. But your own army has hardly been a force conquering all before it. It too has had its share of bad leadership and tactics.
As I have already said to trailerpark,the hands off policy WAS the right one in 2003-05,but I would agree it isnt now.I have been arguing for a British ‘mini surge’ to clean out Basra for weeks now.We have NOT been ‘defeated’,but we DO need to change our tactics...
(The British soldier is a good as any on earth and a surge would succeed.Its isnt the soldier,tina,that is the problem, it is the weakness of those back home in Whitehall and Westminster...)
However, that DOESNT mean the whole British operation has been a flop. No more than the US surge means anything before this summer was useless...
And what of the wonderful efforts of the British in Afghanistan.Who if anything are leading the Americans and Canadians there in efforts to defeat the Taliban...
I respecfully suggest you learn a little British military history...
It has been BRITAIN that since ww2, has had the best record of combatting terrorism and counterinsurgencies....
We DEFEATED Communist terrorists in Malaya in the 50’s, AT THE SAME TIME as we defeated Greek terrorists in Cyprus and black terrorists in Kenya(the mau-mau)
We DEFEATED Communist terrorists in Borneo in the 60’s, AGAIN simultaneously defeating Arab and Marxist Arab terrorists in South Arabia,Aden.
And we DEFEATED from the 70s’ to the 90’s, the Arab terrorists in Oman(1972) and of course defeated the IRA’s bid to create a United Ireland through terror and murder...
We are not perfect,but we are pretty bloody good.
>> Apologies...
No problem, I understand. And I apologize for my first disparaging comment against individual Brit soldiers. It was unintentional. Yes, it’s your politicians (but also your military command). And particularly the insane multicultural nuttiness that seems to have Britain in a headlock. Don’t feel like the Lone Ranger there, we have similar problems over here.
“Take the losers out now, Gordie.”
I would normally sit up and take notice of a comment like that, but seeing as though you’re probably sitting on your arse eating rounds of pizza, I won’t even entertain you, until you know what you’re talking about.......
Well,
1) UK troops go on offensive operations all of the time, far from crouching behind defensive emplacements. Here is an American who has actually been embedded with UK forces, please read his article:http://www.michaelyon-online.com/wp/british-forces-at-war-as-witnessed-by-an-american.htm
I’d hardly call that handling the enemy with kid gloves, would you? One group of UK soldiers in Al-Amara killed over 200 enemy in a few weeks in 2004.
2)Until General Petraeus took over, it was the US that was taking ground, then losing it and overly focussed in large bases. Ironically, he has used the British model of success from Malaya to good effect, creating outposts for US troops so that they can dominate the ground and gain valuable intelligence. It would be good if the UK also had the troop numbers to ‘surge’ like this, but we don’t because we are also taking the lead in heavy combat in Afghanistan. The real ‘losers’ are the other so-called ‘allies’ of the US who won’t commit troops.
3)UK troops have won hundreds of awards for gallantry in Iraq-including two Victoria Crosses. A Royal Marine was awarded a Conspicuous Gallantry Cross for his bravery in protecting US Marines a couple of years ago:http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/HistoryAndHonour/RoyalMarineReceivesConspicuousGallantryCross.htm
4)How on earth you can say that UK politicians are boot-licking towards Muslims is beyond me. What other ally has stood with you on the frontlines in Iraq and Afghanistan?
5) As I wrote in an earlier post in this thread, the British face a different situation in the south than is present in the rest of Iraq. Some argue that militia groups will die out there when the British eventually leave (which will probably be when the US does) as all of their purpose is directed towards attacking the British.
I reacted strongly to your post as, far from rationally critiquing UK political and command mistakes in Iraq, you referred to all UK forces as ‘losers’. I found this very disrespectful to the only body of troops who has faced heavy combat with the US.
I apologise if I misunderstood your meaning
Just a few comments to your post.
Patrols go out on a daily basis.
No US operation will take place to extract the Brits.
Take a look at whats going on in Helmand province at the moment......
I have huge respect for the US and for the US military, but to suggest that they haven’t made mistakes in Iraq also and only the British have made mistakes is ridiculous.
Gentlemen,
I have now done what I should have done before I posted in the first place and thought a bit about what I wrote.
You are all absolutely right and I am wrong.
The Brits are and always have been our good allies (well, since the early 1800’s anyway).
The events in Basra and the abundant supply of boneheaded liberal politicians are unfortunate for both of us.
But the British fighting men are as skilled and courageous as can be found. They are not the problem.
When I read the bad news about Basra I let my Scottish-Irish (!) temper get the best of me and the disparaging remarks are not how I really feel about the Brits or their role in Iraq.
Please accept my humble & sincere apology.
A REAL man apologises.
No offence taken,we all want the same thing, is is perhaps natural that ‘brothers’ squabble from time to time on how to do it...
thanks mate. you presented your argument with all the facts I should have included in mine. too often I polemicise, and this gets the conversation nowhere.
I think that what is worth adding is that our only ‘defeats’ - if you could call them that - were in the Suez and aiding the Rhodesians. 2 campaigns the we didn’t succeed in due to American pressure to pull out......
Apology accepted mate. If you search for it on this website there are many positive stories/articles about the UK military that you may be interested to read. It helps to put the recent Brit-bashing in the US media (picked up on in the UK media) in perspective.
Fair enough.
Thanks. Don’t sell yourself short though though mate, I’ve seen alot of your posts and you make very good points. I also struggle to contain my temper on this forum as well sometimes though ;-)
“Really. So what /should/ I call a force that loses ground it took and controlled earlier, simply because they won’t go on the offensive, but instead crouch behind their defensive emplacements and handle the enemy with kid gloves?”
Your continued ignorance of the roles and tasks that the British military undertakes in Basra, and across vast swathes of the south of Iraq, does untold damage to any argument you’re trying to make.
READ: Michael Yon website. Link to which has been posted in another comment earlier on in the thread.
“I’ve already acknowledged that it’s not the individual Brit soldier — I’m sure they’re fine courageous lads (most, anyway).”
When you claim that our troopers aren’t venturing out of base to go and take the fight to the militia, you sully their honour and belittle the battle that is being waged there. If you dont have any reason to post anti-UK comments, then please structure your arguments and clarify who and what you’re giving it to.
Please see #50, and consider it addressed to you as well.
dont worry about it too much mate. its hard going on these threads of late, no doubt the US Media outlets that are pumping out ‘defeated Brit’ stories have contributed to this.
just back from work pal and commented as I scrolled down. i see your recent posts, and no worries.
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