Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Where lynching is the order of the day (Vigilantism is BAD).
BBC ^ | Thursday, September 13, 2007. | Amarnath Tewary

Posted on 09/13/2007 8:26:58 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-51 next last
To: Poincare
Too many people are unaware that the Committees of Vigilance in California were ad hoc tribunals established by the citizenry in the absence of effective law enforcement.
21 posted on 09/13/2007 9:04:06 AM PDT by BenLurkin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
"Two weeks ago, in bustling Bhagalpur town, a mob nearly beat to death a man who was accused of snatching a gold chain from a woman. What was more shocking was the fact that the incident took place in the presence of two policemen who were filmed by a local news channel dragging the man on their motorcycle."

Indians seem more benign than their Asian counterparts, the Mohammedans, but the more I read about India the more it seems their culture is equally as twisted as Islam.

22 posted on 09/13/2007 9:13:50 AM PDT by BillyAqua
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Billthedrill
"In every case without exception vigilantism is an expression of the failure of an inadequate or corrupt government---"

The lynchings of Blacks in the South during the first 30 years of the 20th Century was the result of a inadequate or corrupt government? The vigilantism I speak of was certainly not people taking the law into their own hands because the laws weren't being adequately enforced by government, it was hatred, pure and simple.

23 posted on 09/13/2007 9:20:07 AM PDT by BillyAqua
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Billthedrill

I’m with you. Vigilantism arises when government breaks down and ceases to perform its proper function. It is not the ideal.

Reading the story, you can see some of the problems with vigilantism. Is the best solution to rampant theft to catch the thieves and put out their eyes, or torture and kill them? I don’t think so.

On the other hand, letting thieves run rampant and doing nothing about it is even worse. The preferred solution is to get a better government. But realistically that isn’t always possible. The second-best solution might be a more just form of vigilantism, better organized, in which thieves are punished but with some reasonable approach to justice rather than uncontrolled mob fury, such as flogging them instead of blinding or killing them. The idea is to persuade them not to do it again, but to go into some other line of business. Repeat offenses might be treated accordingly.

In other words, you need an unofficial justice system if you can’t have an official one, not a lynch mob.


24 posted on 09/13/2007 9:22:05 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

Montana had vigilantes too. They were organized committees of citizens who captured, tried, and hanged criminals. There are those who criticize their conduct and results but at the time Montana was unsafe territory where many suspected Sheriff Plummer of being in cahoots with the roadagente. He and many others were tried and executed.

No system of justice is perfect and where there is no system or a hopelessly inept or corrupt system then direct citizen action is undertaken to safeguard life and property. They do not function as well as a formal, honest system and therefore often commit their own crimes. But they make the bad guys think twice in places where ther is no law.

Having never lived in a truly lawless environment I find it hard to criticize people who take extereme measures to safeguard their community. The government needs to step up and do its job to stop this and this wouldn’t happen.


25 posted on 09/13/2007 9:30:02 AM PDT by hometoroost (TSA = Thousands Standing Around)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Cicero
This kind of vigilantism may not be the ideal, but it's better than THIS.
26 posted on 09/13/2007 9:31:02 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Lancey Howard

Yes. I admit that I was thinking and wondering about our own system of justice when I wrote that.

Vigilantism is never the best solution. But systems of justice are always imperfect, too. America has better justice than most nations in history, but it’s very far from perfect. You have rampant political corruption in most states and municipalities, and you have activist ideological judges in most courts, as seems to be the case with the decision you mention.

Since when is the testimony of one criminal against another not admissible in court? The job of the jury and the lawyers is to weigh such evidence and decide how credible it is. But I have never heard of the idea that you can’t get one criminal to testify against another. Preposterous.

All that aside from the beastliness of the crime. No doubt the released criminal will now go into business, with the judges’ compliments, running a preschool service. This is the kind of decision that strongly tempts people to turn to vigilante justice.


27 posted on 09/13/2007 9:41:59 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: BillyAqua

The lynchings you speak of had nothing to do with what is commonly understood to be vigilante activity.


28 posted on 09/13/2007 9:48:36 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Cicero

I agree that torture is wrong, but I have no problem with executing thieves. They are a plague.


29 posted on 09/13/2007 9:49:58 AM PDT by Scotsman will be Free (11C - Indirect fire, infantry - High angle hell - We will bring you, FIRE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
For those (sick bastards) who think "lynching" is good, all that had to happen was some nice young lady to point at you and yell "rapist" and you would be strung up, back in the day.

A disgusting practice, then and now...

30 posted on 09/13/2007 9:54:17 AM PDT by Clemenza (Rudy Giuliani, like Pesto and Seattle, belongs in the scrap heap of '90s Culture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

“When the Mob rules, it lynches” -— Jose Ortega Y Gasset


31 posted on 09/13/2007 9:54:43 AM PDT by Clemenza (Rudy Giuliani, like Pesto and Seattle, belongs in the scrap heap of '90s Culture)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
"A few freepers seem to believe that vigilantism is a good thing."i

Sometimes it "is" a good thing, when the only alternatives are worse.

"Justice is something for the government to mete out, not an angry mob."

See above, somethmes the government will NOT do it's job, and sometimes government IS the problem.

"If the government is not doing its job, India has a representative form of government, and they can vote in a more responsible government."

Sometimes that isn't possible, even with a supposedly "representative form of government". To say otherwise is a nice idealistic sentiment.

32 posted on 09/13/2007 9:58:29 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
A few freepers seem to believe that vigilantism is a good thing.

You are apparently referring to the Minutemen, who are NOT vigilantees. The incorrect and shameful effort to brand them as vigilantees by Bush, and some posters on Free Republic who are largely departed now, was a sad episode.

Sometimes vigilanteeism is necessary (sometimes it's a simple act of self defense), but it is not at all what is going on the border or what the Minutemen and similar groups are doing.
33 posted on 09/13/2007 10:04:03 AM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Clemenza
Agreed. That is why, even if the government is not up-to-snuff in catching and prosecuting criminals, the villagers and such should have some sort of rule of law.
34 posted on 09/13/2007 10:13:46 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
The reference was not to the Minuteman at all.

Some freepers support actual vigilantism. As some here have pointed out, that could be because there is not other reasonable way. But even if vigilantism is inevitable, the group of people should have a set of rules that they follow when hunting down, prosecuting, and punishing criminals.

35 posted on 09/13/2007 10:16:54 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu

Minuteman movement.....


36 posted on 09/13/2007 10:17:24 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
Since it seems you haven't visited FRhomepage:
Here's a little rundown on views on illegal immigration (old though, some of the opinions could have changed slightly).
37 posted on 09/13/2007 10:19:23 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
I read your link. Now, what is your point? I saw no reference to vigilantees, Minutemen, or anything under discussion.
38 posted on 09/13/2007 10:38:10 AM PDT by Iwo Jima ("Close the border. Then we'll talk.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Iwo Jima
You seemed to think that the mention of vigilantism being bad was a reference to the Minutemen.

If you've read the section, you will see little there which opposes what the Minutemen do, chiefly watch the border and report to the government (via the border patrol) when they spot an illegal alien, which is perfectly legal--vigilantism is not.

39 posted on 09/13/2007 10:44:15 AM PDT by Jedi Master Pikachu ( What is your take on Acts 15:20 (abstaining from blood) about eating meat? Could you freepmail?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Jedi Master Pikachu
sort of a de facto mini-government

As someone who spent some years in remote, sparsely populated areas I can tell you that this was usually the case. When law enforcement was hours away and often not available for anything but major crimes, ad hoc groups would form. I never saw any of the mob mentality that is depicted in movies but usually older and very somber and sober respected citizens would meet to consider the situation.

The deliberations were probably more intense than actual jury trials. Each man knew that he was putting his name and reputation on the line. There would be no legal games and no absolution before God if they were in error. They most often tended to the minimum practical solution to the problem, most often a warning that the transgressors crimes were known and that they would stop immediately or the criminals would face the wrath of the community. Usually that stopped the behavior.

If that didn't work, the subject would have a visit by a group of very serious and very fit men with a final warning as a demonstration of what they were facing. From there things would escalate rapidly. There would probably be a beating. Then there would be a notice that their presence was no longer desirable in the county. Then there would be a 24 hour deadline to leave town. Then...

Rarely did things go past steps one or two. It was efficient and effective and I never, ever, saw it abused.

40 posted on 09/13/2007 10:53:32 AM PDT by MARTIAL MONK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-51 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson