Posted on 10/24/2007 8:28:02 AM PDT by Belasarius
“Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he’ll remember with advantages What feats he did that day. Then shall our names, Familiar in their mouths as household words, Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester, Be in their flowing cups freshly remember’d.”
BTTT
Theater is not history.
I would, and will, argue that just about every rousing speech on a battlefield or in a locker room draws on the St. Crispin’s Day speech. It is a cultural touchstone. From “win one for the Gipper” to Bill Pullman’s speech in “Independence Day,” They all draw water from the same well. The best depiction of WWII combat, “Band of Brothers,” takes its name directly from Shakespeare.
So, yeah. Mel Gibson’s speech in “Braveheart” was influenced by the St. Crispin’s Day speech. Because it changed the dialogue for the English-speaking world. The relevant question isn’t when the battle occurred — it’s when the script was written.
Theater is not history.
I would, and will, argue that just about every rousing speech on a battlefield or in a locker room draws on the St. Crispin’s Day speech. It is a cultural touchstone. From “win one for the Gipper” to Bill Pullman’s speech in “Independence Day,” They all draw water from the same well. The best depiction of WWII combat, “Band of Brothers,” takes its name directly from Shakespeare.
So, yeah. Mel Gibson’s speech in “Braveheart” was influenced by the St. Crispin’s Day speech. Because it changed the dialogue for the English-speaking world. The relevant question isn’t when the battle occurred — it’s when the script was written.
Yes, but wasn’t the Battle of Crecy the one that first showed the power of the longbow?
The Normans brought the bow and calvary to the battle of Hastings, while the Saxons relied on their shield wall tactics. The bow definately played an important roll in the battle, as the Bayuex tapestry depicts Harold being killed by a Norman arrow through the eye.
But the importance of the long bow at Agincourt is that Henry’s army was comprised primarily of archers, and they were outnumbered by the French. But when the heavily armored French troops became bogged down in the mud, the English archers were better able to move on the field and defeat the more heavily armored French force.
I said it looked like the Battle of Agincourt.
In Agincourt, Henry had his archers carve 8 foot poles into long spikes to impale the French cavalry as they charged into his ranks.
In Braveheart, William Wallace (Mel Gibson) ordered his men to carve tree trunks into long spikes to impale the English cavalry as they charged into his ranks.
Maybe it's just me, but it seemed like there was a similarity there.
Yes. Any defeat of the muslims by Christians should be celebrated.
But one of my personal favorites is the Battle of Borodin. Basically saw the end of Napoleon's army in Russia, even though the French nominally won. The ensuing invasion and retreat from Moscow ended his campaign, and he ran back to Paris with his frostbitten tail between his legs.
Over a span of 100 years Agincourt, Crecy, and Poiters were the three signature battles of the longbow. They all involved the repetitive mauling of French armies by English bowmen. I saw a recent history channel production that credited the victory at Agincourt to overcrowding of the battlefield by the French where one horse falling caused a chain reaction where hundreds fell and were unable to disentangle themselves and rise from the muddy field. The armored riders were helpless and swarmed by the lightly armored Brits. They actually demonstrated that the bodkin tipped arrow was incapable of penetrating the armor of the day. Under the circumstances it was a miracle that the Brits won.
Horses are smarter than that. You can't actually get a horse to throw himself onto a pointy object. That's why infantry used to form squares when threatened with cavalry. There are very few examples of cavalry breaking squares and in one case a dying horse forced enough infantrymen apart to allow penetration. If the horse stops in front of a line of bowmen the horsemen are going to be neutralized.
The way played it in the movie was, the spikes were hidden until the last possible moment. Then, when the horses were almost upon them, they pulled up the spikes and pointed them towards the horses.
Interesting. Thanks for the info.
Happy St. Crispins’ Day!
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