Barack Obama, Man of Faith [from his Senate campaign]

MensNewsDaily ^ | August 22, 2004 | Nicholas Stix

[Constitutions Grandchild]

No. Text-book UCC. No hell, no devil, strong community and civic works. Not Marxism. It's what destroyed my church, a lack of faith in Jesus’ work on the cross. It's the most painful transition I have ever endured. Academic, elitist, scientific, belief in self. God is just there as a focal point. The “personal evil” is a figment of imagination and superstition. Now do you understand Senator Obama?

[Tex Pete]

“How many of you believe that there is life (with souls) on other planets in the Universe?”

I can’t say that I have given it a lot of thought.

[RepublitarianRoger2]

I would be willing to bet that my interpretation of that verse is different than yours.

[Tex Pete]

I don’t doubt it.

My point is only that Jesus was pretty explicit in telling how to be saved. Further, Paul admonished those who added their own requirements to “get to Heaven” in Galatians.

Today, lots of people try to make the Bible and Christ fit their own desires and lifestyles. Often, it requires tearing out a lot of pages of scripture. (I am not saying you are doing this)

[tomkat]

headline needs work...

Barack Hussein Obama

[elpadre]

“am a Christian.… So, I have a deep faith. I’m rooted in the Christian tradition. I believe that there are many paths to the same place, and that is a belief that there is a higher power, a belief that we are connected as a people.”

Many paths? Apparently his brand of Christianity and Bible are lacking John 14:6 (NIV)

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

I believe the John quote absolutely and completely, but the mainline denominations, and most especially the Episcopalian leadership say the same. Obama is quoting them Remember the “God cannot be contained in a little box” quote of the leader on one?? She then went on to say what is quoted above.

I

[RepublitarianRoger2]

Follow-up question: Assuming, as I do, that there is an unfathomably rich variety of life on the billions and billions of stars, in their billions and billions of galaxies in the Universe, and also assuming that the beings on these planets are souls living out physical lives as we do -- Do you think that the Old Testament, and the story of Jesus of Nazareth, would make any sense at all to any of these divine beings?

I am probably in the minority here, but I consider Jesus and his disciples to be a scenario, a symbolic scenario, set up as a lesson for the people of Earth in order to better understand the nature of reality and of God. And it was played out in a way that makes sense only in the context of Planet Earth. Think of all of the things that would be impossible to translate for a being, a divinely created being, of another planet. It is all rooted in this planet; even from the very beginning with the Snake (what's a snake? No reference point) and the fruit (what's a fruit? Again, no reference point).

You might think that all of this is a bit far out, but for me it's food for thought. I consider it to be an almost 100% certainty that souls exist in physical form not just on this little blue ball that inhabits an obscure end of a far arm of the spiral galaxy we call the Milky Way, but they exist on a mind-bogglingly innumerable number of other worlds, in an equally mind-bogglingly innumerable number of unique forms.

So if I believe that, then it seems to me that I have to believe that those beings have other such stories, other such scenarios, other symbols, other Scriptures, other Bibles (or whatever they might call them and in whatever form, not necessarily a book (which is made of Earth wood and which may not have an analog on another world), but in whatever form a "Bible" might take there. And those other Bibles will have radically different versions of the path to God. God will have provided for them a story that makes sense within their unique context.

If this is too "New Age" (I hate that term) for you, then oh well, sorry. I'm not a weirdo, honest!! :)

But it is something that I've pondered once in a while.

[RepublitarianRoger2]

“Today, lots of people try to make the Bible and Christ fit their own desires and lifestyles. Often, it requires tearing out a lot of pages of scripture. (I am not saying you are doing this)”

I’ll certainly agree with that.

But I think that even without tearing out any pages, people interpret those pages radically differently from other people. And each thinks that their interpretation is the “Truth.” So you end up with tons of denominations and “factions” if you will.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Don’t ponder it too much or you may miss the bus. Jesus isn’t just a scenario. He was real. He existed. He is deep enough for the most intelligent to drown in and shallow enough for a tiny child to wade in. He is love personified. Love never fails.

[Doctor Don]

If Hussein Osam....Obama believes in Universalism, then he absolutely is NOT a Christian!

[RepublitarianRoger2]

Oh dear...Re-reading my post, I don’t think I communicated that part of it very well.

YES — He was real, He existed.

I am saying that the whole Jesus STORY is a scenario — a wonderful scenario — NOT that Jesus himself is just a symbol or scenario and is not real.

[Tex Pete]

Interesting. I have lots of close friends who went to Christian colleges and like to debate finer points of theology. I won’t say that I don’t think about some of them sometimes, but I have decided that if something theological is not central to my faith, i.e. pertaining to salvation, I am not going to spend much time talking or thinking about it. I feel like that takes away from my time and ability to lead others to Christ.

As for the various interpretations and denominations: I think lots of people don’t actually read the Word, but take what their denominations say as the gospel. If they want to worship and practice a certain way, that’s fine by me. If they want to bastardize the Word of God, that isn’t. Luckily, I will never have to stand before the Throne of God and answer for those people.

[RepublitarianRoger2]

If they want to worship and practice a certain way, that’s fine by me. If they want to bastardize the Word of God, that isn’t.

Ah, but where is the delineation between interpreting Scripture in a certain way and worshiping in a certain way, and bastardization? Where is the line drawn, exactly?

I don't have an answer to that, but that is precisely why there are so many denominations, many of whom do not think that other denominations are "correct." It's why Luther nailed his 95 Theses to the door of the Castle Church in Wittenberg, to break from Catholicism. And then it's why the CLC Lutherans think the LFW Lutherans are doing it wrong and practicing "fake" Christianity. On and on it goes.

Anyway...I think your approach is perfectly good and fine. I don't expect anyone to go along with some of the admittedly more out-of-the-box stuff I bring up...but it's fun to do so every once in a while. Go with the Spirit, sir.

[Tex Pete]

I think the core, salvation, is pretty black and white. Beyond that, I think so much is about personal preference.

I always tell people to ask themselves:
a. Is what my church teaches Biblical?
b. If what we are teaching/doing is not out of the Bible, why do we do it?
c. If we are doing things according to the Bible, am I comfortable with the way we worship?

Jesus never intended everyone to worship Him in one particular way, but I do believe that He intended everyone to come to Him in the same way.

There are churches of many stripes that preach salvation, and there are many churches of those same stripes that do not. It depends on who is in charge.

[babyfreep]

That would be consistant with a multicultural viewpoint.

Which probably means the "place" he believes "there are many paths to" ain't Heaven. obaMA is sounding more and more like an anti-Christ every day.