Posted on 06/13/2008 12:02:30 PM PDT by Red Badger
A common misperception about electrolysis (likely the process in this system) is that energy is being created.
Water being a molecule has energy stored in its very structure—actually more energy per gallon than a gallon of gasoline.
While the process of releasing that energy stored in water does require energy—and traditional electrolytic methods are notoriously inefficient, there is no reason why, with the proper technology, efficiency can not be reached to release more of the energy stored in water than it takes to “crack” that energy (the hydrogen) out of it.
This is not therefore any violation of the law of thermodynamics—since no energy is being created or added to the whole equation, only released—following standard laws of physics—from storage.
In the same way that a woodstove releases more energy than it is requred to feed it—since the energy is released from the burning wood, so too water, like any chemical, can, theoretically release more of it’s energy than it takes to “feed” the reaction(s) it takes to release it.
I believe hydrogen derived from water, be it in onboard, on demand systems (such as this) or in micro-plants-at-the-filling-station, will be the fuel of the future.
And high oil prices will push the market that direction!
No less than BMW already has a practical hydrogen powered car—and a practical onboard system (if this Japanese invention is not it) cracking water, is not far away.
Thanks for the shout-out. If only we could start a war between the prepetual-motioners and the angle-trisectors...
(Phony Scots Accent) But, Captain Kirk, ye canna mix matter with antimatter with a swizzlestick!
I guess with your calculations, since their van has 1/7 the HP as a push-lawnmower, it can barely move.
Better tell that to the driver cruising normally around Japan.
“Just don’t look in my box or ask my what chemical changes have happened to my copper and zinc.”
You’re cheating — there is more in your black box besides the copper and zink electrodes, (whisper, whisper, whisper)
Briefly stated, a hydrogen-oxygen reaction will never release more energy that it took to release the hydrogen in the first place. In effect, the hydrogen is a way of storing energy. If you have a cheap source of electrical energy (say, a nuclear power plant) you can use the electricty to seperate the hydrogen, and then the hydrogen to power a vehicle, but what you doing is effectively powering the vehicle with the nuclear power plant, and adding an overhead for the conversion. The kicker is whether electricity is cheap enough to make this process (plus the infrastructure outlay) feasible, and for that we’d need a lot more nukes. (Which is a good idea in any case.)
P.S. Hydrocarbons, such as gasoline, release their energy through oxidation. Water is already oxidized.
Water—despite the flooding in the Midwest-— IS NOT in abundant supply in the western half og the country.
Are we going to deny the use of water to grow our food so that the water can be used for fuel?
The Ethanol debacle is really hitting the skids, IMO, with the flooding and hail and heavy rain ruining the corn crop in about 7 states that are high in corn production. There will be no or very little crop of corn this year, and with any surface crop that is subject to Mother Nature, it is an uncertain source for fuel or food each and every year. Where are the Ethanol refineries going to get their raw materials this year???
Actually, you just made my point in a round-a-bout sort of way. It is exactly that kind of arrogance from which I expected we would need to step back. I just assumed it would be from others rushing to answer your question. Silly me.
How much power does it take to produce the fuel electrode? If it’s more than the unit puts out, they’ve invented a “perpetual backwards machine”.
I might be off track, but I always thought that the real potential for “fuel cell” technology is really to make better Storage Devices for Wind or solar Power. Less toxic, easier maintenance, etc.
Any kind of power, but IIRC wind and solar don't produce enough juice for the buck.
You know you can’t trust laws passed by a bunch of dead white men!
barbra ann
LOL!
Would you believe that there are people who say that unironically?
Soylent Green
Congress may repeal the Second Law of Thermodynamics; it nearly repealed the economic law of supply and demand; raising gasoline taxes to lower gasoline prices!
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