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Ethanol, A Terrible Fuel Alternative
The Bulletin ^ | 11/26/2008 | Paul M. Weyrich

Posted on 11/26/2008 6:37:38 AM PST by IbJensen

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To: Kitanis

why, do you have a problem using starch for ethanol production for some reason?

Learn how ethanol is made, from what it’s made before you form an opinion. Passing on BS generated by purely ignorant people isn’t very becoming.


41 posted on 11/26/2008 8:09:53 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: alloysteel
Also consider using the Bergius process of reacting hydrogen with coal under high pressure in coal beds too deep to mine for coal. Hydrogen down a mile, and then gasoline up.
42 posted on 11/26/2008 8:12:35 AM PST by dr huer
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To: Thermalseeker
All nonsense. Ethanol is a fine fuel, does not "attract" moisture and rupture fuel lines' etc.

What causes that is bad fuel , when the petroleum based fuel already has water in it. When it's blended with ethanol, it causes that water to precipitate out of the fuel. So if anything, ethanol is a good- "bad gasoline" detector. If the gasoline is good when ethanol is blended, say e10, any water entering the fuel tank will be ABSORBED by the ethanol, PREVENTING fuel line freeze up. That's why you DON'T need gas line antifreeze when using e10. Plus you get an octane boost from e10, giving you BETTER gasoline performance.

HOWEVER, I wouldn't recommend burning e85 unless the engine has been extensively modified to burn alcohol properly, taking advantage of it's properties. otherwise, you will get poor efficiency and miss out on a tremendous power increase. E10-25 is perfectly fine for regular gas cars however.

Pure ethanol itself can absorb 60% it's volume of water and STILL burn, without water precipitating out.

In fact you drink ethanol blended with water in even higher ratio's than that.
have you EVER seen water precipitate out of your whiskey?

43 posted on 11/26/2008 8:22:07 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Lion Den Dan

Food grains are not used in ethanol production”

There is a direct relationship between corn production for ethanol and our food.
There is less corn to feed to beef cattle, pigs, and chickens.
That affects us in the price of meat and eggs.
The cost of milk has gone waaaay up to the dairy farmer because less acreage is being devoted to HAY production, as the fields are being used for ethanol corn production.

When all is said and done, there is still the pesky little problem of the amount of BTU’s that ethanol produces. It is approximately 2/3 of the amount of BTU’s the same amount of gasoline produces.
Time to take the BS out of this issue and get back to pure science.


44 posted on 11/26/2008 8:28:21 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: madprof98

I lose about 5-6 mpg in my hybrid every time ‘

I used to live in No Calif, where there is mandatory “winter blend” with 10% ethanol.
I lost at least 1-% mileage with that crap.


45 posted on 11/26/2008 8:30:22 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: smithandwesson76subgun
"E-85 is more expensive than regular in my hometown. Poor fuel mileage, gov. subsidies and costs more to boot. Isn’t that nice."

Shouldn't be. Ethanol sells at 1.67 a gallon. It only costs more when blended with gasoline, because the gasoline costs more. As for the crappy gas mileage, of course! Tune the car to burn ethanol. It won't run very good tuned to burn gas. Better yet take the engine to the speed shop and have them increase the compression ratio to about 17:1 instead of the 8.5:1 it currently is. Have them reprogram the advance curve to fit alcohol burning properties, as well as generally advancing the initial timing setting 20 degrees more advanced.

Then you'll not only get GREAT gas mileage, you'll be able to lay down some decent rubber too!.

But burning e85 in a gas engine is just plain waste full. No more than e25, which most electronic ignition systems can detect and compensate somewhat for. E10 is best for a regular gas engine.

For high alcohol content blends like E85, you simply MUST have a higher compression engine to get good value and power. If you had that, you would NEVER burn regular gas again.

46 posted on 11/26/2008 8:33:36 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: IbJensen

Ethanol attacks elastomeric sealing devices more aggressively than does carbon-based fuel. This causes premature failure and ultimately the expensive engine overhauls.
The nanny-ninny liberal pansies know best for us.”

Remember when the Liberals changed the formula for deisel?

The change caused the fuel to eat up all the o-rins, seals, in the deisel engines. Large trucks/semi’s were stalled on roads all over the country.

Many of those trucks were owner/operators. Those repair costs came out of their pockets. Even the costs of repairs that the big outfits paid for were passed on to the consumers.

There is hardly a single action that the Feds and the Liberals dream up that does NOT have a negative impact somewhere.

And I have some real news for those of you who are total city slickers:

Milk doesn’t just come from SAFEWAY!!!!!


47 posted on 11/26/2008 8:34:31 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: ridesthemiles
Nonsense. They haven't used natural rubber in engine parts and fuel systems since the 60's now.

You are repeating very OLD news. Those warning exist only for those who still might have an old vehicle with natural rubber fuel hoses and gaskets.

Heck, even my old 1935 Minneapolis Moline uses cork because it was MADE to run on alcohol.

48 posted on 11/26/2008 8:40:47 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: ridesthemiles

And BTW, the same warning exists when using modern fuels with MTBU additive. It attacks rubber as well. MTBU was added in place of lead.


49 posted on 11/26/2008 8:42:26 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary
All my neighbors that raise beef grind their own feed from the same dent corn that they haul to the ethanol plants. The beef and hogs are eating the whole thing.

Hay and alfalfa prices are through the roof because those fields have been tilled up to plant more corn and soybeans.

Without a cheap supply of hay for winter feed the beef become damn expensive to feed in the winter.

I raised hogs for years and could feed out a 250# hog for around $65 in feed. It now costs more than double that for the same feed from the same grain mill in just the last 2 years.

If that leftover slop was such great feed the meat prices should be down because the corn production has gone way up.

50 posted on 11/26/2008 8:45:27 AM PST by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: ridesthemiles
"This causes premature failure and ultimately the expensive engine overhauls."

And just what 'expensive overhauls' might those be? replacing a fuel line? ($5) A carb kit? ($25)

You certainly won't blow an engine if your carb starts leaking fuel.

51 posted on 11/26/2008 8:47:31 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Beagle8U
"Hay and alfalfa prices are through the roof because those fields have been tilled up to plant more corn and soybeans."

BS Alfalfa don't grow where corn grows, and corn don't grow where alfalfa grows.

Hay and alfalfa prices are through the roof because:
A) the price of fuel tripled,
B) the price of fertilizer tripled

NOT because commodity prices for a TON of feed corn went up $3/ton

52 posted on 11/26/2008 8:52:20 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Larry381
"Don’t know how true that is but I have seen it written several times."

Well, be sure to repeat it several times more before you try to find out.

53 posted on 11/26/2008 8:52:35 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of The Free Because of The Brave)
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To: ridesthemiles
Remember when the Liberals changed the formula for deisel?

Yes. They are so smart.

Now we have the new, reformulation edict of low sulphur content. It drives the cost up $1.00 over the cost of regular (unleaded) gasoline.

I know because I have two diesel autos.

These pansies we've elected to rule and ruin our lives are absolutely functionally illiterate.

54 posted on 11/26/2008 8:54:35 AM PST by IbJensen (Obombazombies have given America to the Communists!)
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To: Lion Den Dan
"Food grains are not used in ethanol production, only seed quality grains."

And your source for that statement would be what? Can you define a 'seed quality' grain? Thanks for your time.

55 posted on 11/26/2008 8:55:06 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of The Free Because of The Brave)
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To: Beagle8U
Oh, and most beef farmers don't feed their cattle corn, just dairy farmers do, and they grow their own, so commodity, nor ethanol demand has NO effect on them.

I've never seen a farmer BUY all his feed. They certainly wouldn't be a farmer for very long.

Same goes for hogs. they GRW their own feeds stuff, around these parts it's barley.

never try BS a farm boy.

56 posted on 11/26/2008 8:55:39 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: Nathan Zachary

“BS Alfalfa don’t grow where corn grows, and corn don’t grow where alfalfa grows.”

I’m done with this thread. Its obvious that you don’t know your a$$ from a grape on this subject!


57 posted on 11/26/2008 8:55:46 AM PST by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: IbJensen
"Many researchers have found that the production of ethanol consumes more energy than it yields."

There are arguments on both sides of that statement, dependent on which side of the ethanol/no ethanol lobby one sits.

Actually, corn based ethanol uses much more energy to produce than ethanol derived from switchgrass and other materials.

58 posted on 11/26/2008 9:00:06 AM PST by JustaDumbBlonde (America: Home of The Free Because of The Brave)
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To: JustaDumbBlonde
I think he meant feed corn, not seed.
as for the other question
Try look up "how ethanol is made"?

Oh, and also look up how much of the corn grown in America is used for human consumption (less than 1%) and even much of that goes unsold and ends up in landfills some years.

The USA is a food IMPORTER not a food exporter. (we import 76% of our food needs) Much of which gets tossed out.

59 posted on 11/26/2008 9:01:41 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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To: JustaDumbBlonde
More nonsense.

The ratio is about 10:1. You get ten times the energy value in ethanol as was used to produce the energy.

It's about the same for oil pumped out of the ground, except much less disastrous on the environment.

Again,

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/

60 posted on 11/26/2008 9:05:35 AM PST by Nathan Zachary
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