Posted on 11/26/2008 6:37:38 AM PST by IbJensen
More than you’ll ever know, city boy.
More ethanol in fuel ahead? If this keeps up I’m gonna have to cut back on my morning grits and lunchtime cornpone.
You are really trying to be a jerk to the wrong person. My point was that you can find bogus numbers on each side of the ethanol argument.
It has fallen below what it was BEFORE the claimed ethanol induced spike (as if gasoline and fertilizer prices had NOTHING to do with it)
Fact: beef farmers don't feed grains to their cattle. That is done at the stockyard (where the farmers sell their cattle to) when cattle are "finished" before slaughter. The stuff the stockyards used is a blend of all kinds of crap, (hopefully not rendering plant animal by products anymore) from turkey/chicken barn sweepings to grain cracklings left over from other processing. There are about 5 hog super barn producer around where I live. I know how they conduct their business, what they grow for feed, as well as a few dairy farmers, one next door to me. They grow their own feed, and around here, corn isn't one of those grains. Alfalfa grows in these parts, the cooler north west is what alpfalfa likes to grow in. It will not grow in hot dry regions, like the corn belt. Similarly, The season is too short here for corn to grow.
That you can.
I’m only interested in the facts though, and the engineering aspects of the industry. The simple fact is, it’s good for the country, creates great jobs for higher educated people, as well as some labor jobs.
And, if Detroit ever wakes up, Ethanol is economical if they built the engines to burn it properly. We are years behind near 3rd world countries like Brazil in that regard, even though NASA is doing a lot of work on developing ethanol systems with them.
Most people haven’t even heard of ethanol burning diesel engines, even though they are so clean and efficient, nearing the 100 mpg mark.
-( this was fifty-some years ago and my dad didn't have a wheat allotment, part of the "New Deal")--
I have NO problem with using starch for ethanol.
But with all the speculation about Ethanol I believe like others that all avenues must be explored. In my own state.. Ethanol is mandated into our gas.
But saying that.. I believe that take the crop aspect out of the alternative fuels.. Say making Ethanol from switch grass instead of using grain.. or Methanol from garbage or other waste materials make more sense.
Or a combination of all technologies..
I am well aware that an engine can be tuned to run on alcohol. It will run great but mileage will still be bad. You just can’t get by needing x2 as much alcohol to make the same B.T.U.s as gas. Also I can’t help what “should be”
Well, thank you. I asked my question for a specific reason and if I get an answer, I will continue.
"Oh, and also look up how much of the corn grown in America is used for human consumption (less than 1%) and even much of that goes unsold and ends up in landfills some years."
Thank you again. My husband and I farm. We get some pretty good information on consumption and what it is consumed for and by. The American farmer, historically, can produce much more than America will consume. America is also a very wasteful country because we have so much.
The reason corn is used for ethanol is that it is cheap to produce and there is a lot of it. Since the early 1900s the US agricultural problem, with the exception of a very few years has been an excess production capacity. There are not enough paying customers for the product. The farmers can and generally do produce more grain than the world will buy. The precept ion of is that the last year or so has been an exception, however, the current price paid to the farmer indicates that is probably still true. Very few farmers sold grain at the high prices. The prices did not go up last year until well after the harvest when most farmers had sold theirs to avoid storage prices. The current prices are less than half the peak levels.
The ethanol plants that are squawking about high prices are those that bought high priced corn futures. If they could buy at current prices, they would be making out like bandits.
As land owner, as far as I can tell, the only current “government subsidy” we get seems to be on the mandated crop insurance. None on the production expenses and certainly none when we sell the grain.
As to the effect on store prices vs grain prices: When I was in high school & wheat was $2/bushel, the $ of wheat in a loaf of bread was $0.04. Do the math with the current five dollar wheat.
Also note that an individual farmer's cost of production has no real effect on the price he rec eaves for his product. He can only make a living when the market offers some value greater than the cost of his operation.
I have heard that Brazil has made numerous offers to supply us with all the alcool as they call it for $1.25 gallon (which is pretty funny cause they charge Brazillians about $6 a gallon at the pump). But, But.... the corn growers need to make $3 a gallon. We could never grow enough corn to compare to all the ethanol Brazil can supply us.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the US farmers and on a small scale try to play one, but they have grown quite addicted to GOV money through the years.
Last time I checked, fertilizer from the COOP had tripled from what I paid a few years ago. As a side note, I haven’t bought any.””
Yep, the oil dependency groups don’t want to hear about the skyrocketing cost of inputs, not to mention, many people expect to tell farmers how and where they can sell the fruits of their businesses.
I represent farmers who wish to sell their business products in whatever manner they deem fit. OPEC clearly does not want the competition.
Stop using food crops to produce it.
Why should farmers stop if the market is there? Are you suggesting that agribusiness should not have the right to market their products according to their wishes.
That’s because ethanol has 30% less energy than gasoline. 10% ethanol would guarantee you that you get 15 to 20% less mpg on your vehicle.
In fact there is no shortage of food in the markets because of Ethanol or any other reason. America has a vast capability of increasing food production. Our farmers are producing all the food and corn they can sell and they can greatly increase that production any time the markets are there to sell it.
There is minimal connection between ethanol and food costs. We are producing both at market capacity.
It is a myth that ethanol damages todays engines. Ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline and creates less wear and tear than does straight gasoline.
The 1970s cars that had plastic gas lines and carburetor parts have all been replaced or are classic show cars anyway that dont much drive on the road.
Here is a PDF on Ethanol that tells us some facts about the industry.
http://www.lecg.com/etea08
It is a bogus conclusion that higher food costs came from ethanol production. Most of the increased food cost is from $140 dollar a barrel petroleum. Some increase is a normal periodic price adjustment to keep up with inflation in general.
Americas farmers are producing all the food and all the corn for fuel that they can market profitably. As new markets open up our farmers have a vast capacity to increase production to meet any new demand.
Here is a PDF pointing out some Ethanol facts.
http://www.lecg.com/etea08
You know, as well as I and many others do, that Congress has overstepped it's Constitutional boundaries too damned many times.
If the legislation hadn't been passed you would still be selling your products, but to conventional users not to a customer base dictated by our central government.
Well, be sure to repeat it several times more before you try to find out.
Yes, but in the meantime, some cheap fixes, change your oil a little more often, also every other tankful use gasoline additives, many will pick up the extra water and other crap from ethanol and get rid of same.
Right now Chrysler dealers are offering a multi oil change package that brings the price down to about $20 per change.
Take advantage while they're still around.
I inherited an old Nova that had been sitting and ran awful, so I did an experiment and just changed the oil every few weeks, within a couple months it was running so well I sold it for $2000 to someone who loved old novas.
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