Posted on 01/09/2009 11:48:26 PM PST by GATOR NAVY
Regardless of what it may have been in the past, there is no current rank of Commodore. A one-star (O-7) in the US Navy is currently called Rear Admiral (Lower Half). Commodore is now only a position
Even more confusing are current ranks and positions with the same name.
The Commanding Officer of a ship is called the captain, but you do not have to be the rank of Captain (O-6) to have that position.
The Executive Officer of a ship is called the commander, but you do not have to be the rank of Commander (O-5) to have that position.
The captain (CO) of my submarine was a Commander (O-5), and the commander (XO) of my ship was a Lieutenant Commander (O-4). Yet on an aircraft carrier, both the captain (CO) and commander (XO) are Captains (O-6).
Considering that the CO has only been aboard since last May, my guess is that the ship failed some sort of major inspection, either INSURV or an Operational Readiness Exercise (ORE) and that’s what triggered the LOC.
USS George Washington’s Senior Chain of Command was relieved for lack of confidence after an onboard fire that injured several sailors and did millions of dollars in damage.
Then again, “Command Climate” problems could be anything from racial unrest to “friggin’ in the riggin’”...
The privacy thing is interesting, too.
Now THAT is an interesting idea. If correct, I pray that Zer0 has the wisdom to let the professionals run the operation.
LOL! Things haven't changed. At my last command I'd have to change from the coveralls I was wearing in the hanger into utilities to go upstairs to admin.
An oddly fascinating thread - thanks for your clarification and examples (although I have to admit when I finished reading your post, my initial response was “so tell me again, who’s on first?”)
In that particular case, some "individual(s)" were smoking in a space they should NOT have been smoking in, which contained hazardous flammable matrials that should NOT have been stowed there...resulting in a $70-million dollar fire, and a delay of many months in the ship's deployment to Japan. This is solid proof that it only takes a few pinheads to take down a mighty warship and sink a few careers along the way.
As a woman in the United States Navy, I find that remark highly offensive! I have served 21 years in the USN. I am a Senior Chief Petty Officer, eligible for Master Chief this spring. I have served in 7th Fleet, PCS’d on a destroyer. I would like to know how it was detrimental social engineering? While stationed onboard my ship, my guys did a great job. They worked hard! We worked hard as a team! We had 100% advancement. Some examples: My two First Classes were promoted: one to CPO and one to LDO. My guys still email me to ask advice on how to handle some personnel issues and some technical questions. This is quite some time after we have all transferred. Why would they do that if this “experiment in social engineering” was not successful so to speak?
I was the only female in the Mess for quite some time and yes it was different but I knew that I was “one of the boys” once they started talking “smack” in the mess. My CMC would even talk to me to get different points of view. Did we always agree? Hell No! We all had different strengths and weaknesses but we came together as a team. In fact, I was nominated by MY MESS for a CPO leadership award...
However, I realize this post will not likely change your mind. I am sure that you will continue to live with this misguided perception that woman cannot lead. I truly hope someday you can learn to see your prejudice. I will pray for you and continue to lead my Sailors, be a wife and mother, and teach my daughter that she can do or be anything in life that she wishes; that may be stay at home mother or it may mean leading a ship into battle or both. Either way, my job is to teach her that being a woman does not meant that you are lesser nor does it mean that you are better. It means that we were made to work together. God Bless you!
Actually several Commodores were appointed by Motown in the 1970’s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU
Commodore is not used by the USN, but it is used by several other navies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_(rank)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_star_rank
It is possible in certain situations for a US Navy Rear Admiral (Lower Half), wearing two stars, to be outranked (by date of rank) by a Royal Navy Commodore who holds one star rank.
Do we have confidence in the appointments he has made so far? Can we relieve the President of his duty for lack of confidence? (Just dreaming.)
In the US Navy, a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) is in the pay grade O-6 and always wears one star. It is the Rear Admiral (Upper Half) that wears the two stars in pay grade O-7.
It appears that US paygrade of O-6 is the same rank of NATO code OF-6, and that a Royal Navy Commodore is an OF-6, and their Rear Admiral is an OF-7.
Therefore I would think that their Commodore is the same rank as our Rear Admiral (Lower Half) and that seniority goes by time in rank.
There is of course positional authority as well, so it is possible that an officer in a particular rank be given more authority than an officer of higher rank, or that a less senior officer can be in command of an officer of the same rank with more seniority.
If you really want to be confused, try directly comparing British enlisted ranks to ours.
"Zip" Zirbel commanded COMMATVAQWINGPAC and conducted my change of season uniform inspection when I was TAD to VAQ-129 in November of 1982. As he made his way down each rank, he didn't execute facing movements as he moved from Marine to Marine, he sidestepped. That produced a lot of under the breath comments and snickers in the ranks but you should have seen the look on Zip's face when a Marine PFC told him he wasn't conducting his inspection correctly.
That car that was customized for him wasn't really a muscle car. It was a mid to late 70s Coronet/Fury that was getting pretty long in the tooth. They may have gotten it used from the Oak Harbor cops destined for the scrap heap.
Thanks for your kind replies.
Quite plausible, to me.
Interesting, regardless.
I didn’t realize the Klintoon purge was that widespread.
Horrific.
Batten down the hatches folks . . .
In the US Navy, a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) is in the pay grade O-6 and always wears one star. It is the Rear Admiral (Upper Half) that wears the two stars in pay grade O-7.
It appears that US paygrade of O-6 is the same rank of NATO code OF-6, and that a Royal Navy Commodore is an OF-6, and their Rear Admiral is an OF-7.
Should read this:
In the US Navy, a Rear Admiral (Lower Half) is in the pay grade O-7 and always wears one star. It is the Rear Admiral (Upper Half) that wears the two stars in pay grade O-8.
It appears that US paygrade of O-7 is the same rank of NATO code OF-6, and that a Royal Navy Commodore is an OF-6, and their Rear Admiral is an OF-7.
““deputy commodore”
Obama era kinder/gentler military?
SURE they face a loss of rank. THAT IS, they will NEVER be promoted. NO PUNISHMENT??? I DON'T THINK SO - they will get relief for cause officers efficiency reports and that will DOOM them. THEY ARE TOAST!!! FINISHED. Might as well go find another job. They are done!
Well said in a courteous and thoughtful reply! I have no question about the ability of women to lead; women, over the ages, have demonstrated their outstanding credentials and presented tangible evidence that they can lead. Congratulations to you on your successful career as a leader, a mother, and a wife.
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