Posted on 01/11/2010 6:23:41 PM PST by steve-b
It’s minor because even without gay marriage, marriage and family as institutions are still doomed in the west.
If we don’t fix that we’ve already lost. Regardless of whether we win the gay marriage issue.
Why?
“God defines marriage and morals.”
Gubberment involvement in marriage has conditioned many folks to think that marriage comes from and is defined by the gubberment, so they accept it when gubberment inevitably messes up and puts forth impossibilities like “gay marriage”. I bet ol’ Ted can’t even imagine how anyone could get along without gubberment sticking its beak into marriage.
Freegards
Thank you for your detailed response. You might consider making it a thread of its own. I don’t have any credentials but I have been keenly interested in the theological and cultural debate on this issue because it provides a sharp distinction between two clashing world views. Views which I believe are irreconcilable and will result in a division of the Church and culture.
You know as well as I do that your three points of disagreement are met with contrary liberal arguments, which although logically unsound, are very appealing to the ear for the opposing view.
I will add to your conclusion about motivation. Many are in rebellion to God’s authority because they want to be accepted without believing they are sinners. The tragedy is they seek a false acceptance. Even if society blessed their marriage, even if they remained monogamous, even if the Catholic Church declared every homosexual a saint, they would not be satisfied because they know they are sinners. They are sinners not because they are homosexuals but because we are all fallen.
None of us realize how awful we are until we allow God to begin changing our hearts. The sad part of all of this is that many homosexuals are not given the truth so they can surrender themselves to God and allow God to begin transforming them. They are being led to believe they have a savior in government and governments ability to press a raised seal on a piece of paper.
They are being deceived.
No, those are not my words.
My position is that society doesn't need government-marriage. Marriage is completely different matter.
As for laws against murder, stealing, etc, these are universally viewed as crimes. EVERYONE agrees that they don't want to be murdered or to have their property stolen. The laws are to deal with the people who try to get away with doing these things to other people, even though they would protest loudly if they themselves were the targets of these actions.
Communists imply that there are no ‘values’ beyond those of economics.
Not really. Communist regimes heavily push the value of each individual contributing to the grand unified system for altruistic reasons, and not trying to get ahead of other people.
Conservatives argue that there exist traditional values by which society has operated for thousands of years, which are necessary for an orderly functioning of society.
That notion is pure fantasy, which belies a profound ignorance of history.
Homosexuals don’t want to be married. Countries that legalized homosexual marriage see very few homosexual marriages. They last 2 and 1/2 years on average.
They want a law to legitimize their intrusion into schools to get at the kids.
LOL. Gotta watch the commas! :-)
Grammar counts :-)
Read Edmund Burke. He says exactly what I’m saying.
Conservatives believe that civil society is important and that the government has a duty to preserve civil society. This includes traditional marriage among other things.
If we lose here, we won’t get the other stuff back. Gotta win this first, and win on the rest of it.
I love it when a heathen tells a Christian how to be a Christian.
Gays and lesbians are probably less than 5% of the general population. Of that percent, there would likely be a very small number of homosexuals who would actually marry.
I know that many here would be unhappy if even just one homosexual couple became betrothed.
I would be more in favor of granting gays and lesbians all of the legal benefits of marriage, but not call it marriage. To settle this issue both sides will have to make concessions, but I don't see either side budging an inch.
I predict in 20 or 30 years the "will of the voters" will sway toward approving gay marriage.
Gays and lesbians are probably less than 5% of the general population. Of that percent, there would likely be a very small number of homosexuals who would actually marry.
I know that many here would be unhappy if even just one homosexual couple became betrothed.
I would be more in favor of granting gays and lesbians all of the legal benefits of marriage, but not call it marriage. To settle this issue both sides will have to make concessions, but I don't see either side budging an inch.
I predict in 20 or 30 years the "will of the voters" will sway toward approving gay marriage.
Ted talks about gay marriage like:
1. He knows why people become gay.
2. Gay people can procreate and create offspring
3. There’s no linkage between homosexuality and pedophilia
4. There’s absolutely no difference in marriage partners between a gay man and a straight woman. They are interchangeable in every conceivable way in a process that we by now well understand completely.
In short, this is what happens when you leave neurochemistry and psychology up to lawyers. Lawyers have this arrogance like they can be experts in everything under the Sun. Truly, they consider themselves to be a sort of new priest of a high, moral secular order.
The Gay Mafia will avoid like the plague any scholarly study of the causes and effects of homosexuality, but they are all for demanding society seeing them as ‘normal’, and their behavior ‘normative’.
Ted, in a word, is an arrogant buffoon. A glib salesman, who like many salesman, has only a passing understanding of their flawed and dangerous product.
Whether for it or against it, it should be left to the States, like everything else NOT MENTIONED IN THE CONSTITUTION.
We won’t get the other stuff back until we try to get them back, we certainly won’t get the other stuff back by fighting some ancillary issue.
The gay marriage issue is nothing but a distraction that has been put up specifically to get the conservatives’ attention away from the real issue. And sadly almost all of us have fallen for it.
I appreciate your comments. What you said about wanting to be accepted without admitting they are sinners is precisely the struggle being played out in various Churches, where practicing homosexuals are demanding full acceptance without confessing and repenting of their sin. They do not understand, or are in rebellion against, the reality that the Church is the community of forgiven sinners.
But true happiness and peace eludes those in rebellion against God. They may fight and struggle for their “rights,” but even if they succeed the emptiness remains. And so they rail against those who stand against them, thinking that if only such opposition can be eliminated, then peace and fulfillment will follow (such thinking has led to the persecution of believers throughout history). But in the end they cannot succeed, only those who are willing to bow the knee and confess their sinfulness will have a place in heaven.
Balderdash.
You don’t know what you are talking about. I live in a jurisdiction that has gay marriage, and we are having endless fights, not over gay marriage, but over polygamy now.
It’s not an ancillary issue, it’s central to it. You lose here, you aren’t getting that other stuff back because you’ll be too busy fighting the next thing down the line.
You’re having endless fight not because marriage is losing. You’re having endless fights because marriage has already lost.
Polygamy and gay marriage are natural extensions of the idea that marriage and family is about self-fulfillment and individual happiness rather than about duties and obligations and responsibilities.
Marriage isn’t saved by preventing same sex marriage, that the easy thing to do, the harder part to get straight people to marry, and then honor their vows.
One word for this guy..............NO! On everything he says.
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