Army Calls ‘Birther’ Doc’s Bluff

Military.com ^ | April 9, 2010 | Bryant Jordan

[Mr Rogers]

Obama is a US citizen. No one should have ANY doubt about that!

Born of an American mother - same.

On US soil - some claim a young woman in the early 60s underwent the long and unpleasant trip to Kenya, just so she could take advantage of sub-standard medical care and give birth in Africa. To date, that ridiculous claim has never had any facts presented to support it.

Raised as an American - apart from a few years in Indonesia, he was raised in Hawaii and educated in the continental US, where he has lived as an adult.

4 true statements.

[Mr Rogers]

A soldier has the right to decide if an order is unlawful. “Go kill innocent civilians for fun!” would be unlawful.

Soldiers do NOT get to decide things like, “Is it a just war?”, or, “Is everyone in my chain of command competent and duly authorized?” Those are required to be accepted on trust.

Believe me - I once tried to turn in my Commanding Officer as a nut job. I was right, but no one would touch it. [Note - in the end, he agreed to retire after some of his comments became too painful for some of his higher ranking fellow officers to ignore...]

[edge919]

Obama is a US citizen. No one should have ANY doubt about that!

He can't prove it, so sorry, there is plenty of doubt.

Born of an American mother - same.

... an American mother who married two foreign nationals and took her child with her to another country. She had no particular allegiance to the United States.

On US soil - some claim a young woman in the early 60s underwent the long and unpleasant trip to Kenya, just so she could take advantage of sub-standard medical care and give birth in Africa. To date, that ridiculous claim has never had any facts presented to support it.

Your assumption that he was born on U.S. soil cannot be proved. Even the state of Hawaii admitted his original birth certificate was insufficient for 'verifying' a place of birth. You make a poor argument in reference to SAD's reasons for being in Kenya. She was allegedly married to a Kenyan. We don't know when she traveled and at what point she realized she would be giving birth. Being an impetuous teenager, the medical and travel conditions may have never crossed her mind. It's ridiculous to make assumptions about her state of mind and reasoning. Let's just deal with the fact that no place of birth has been proven.

Raised as an American - apart from a few years in Indonesia, he was raised in Hawaii and educated in the continental US, where he has lived as an adult.

We don't know for sure why the little bastard was sent back to Hawaii. It obviously wasn't because of undying patriotic love of America. What you admit was that he wasn't raised solely as an American. For some reason, you omit the parts that aren't convenient. Out of your four claims, you have two half-truths.

[BP2]

I already have.

Do you mean trickster Chester Arthur, who so happened to nominate Justice Gray, author of the US v. Ark opinion?
LOL. Seems like Obama read Chester Arthur's 1880 playbook on misdirection and disinformation, decades before Alinsky was even born.

Let me offer some background to those who aren't familiar ... as the details of his father who became a US Citizen in 1843 and Chester Arthur's birth in 1829 are VERY important.

Chester Arthur ran as the GOP Vice Presidential candidate with James Garfield in 1880. Garfield went on to be President, but served only eight months, dying on Sept. 19, 1881 because of complications from an assassination attempt 10 weeks prior.

Chester Arthur, son of a British subject, assumed the Presidency after taking the oath of office twice, like Obama. Just one month into his presidency, on Oct 19, 1881, he issued an executive order "to celebrate the Yorktown Centennial":

It is hereby ordered, That at the close of the ceremonies commemorative of the valor and success of our forefathers in their patriotic struggle for independence the British flag shall be saluted by the forces of the Army and Navy of the United States now at Yorktown. The Secretary of War and the Secretary of the Navy will give orders accordingly.

Arthur kept many personal secrets, too. One well-kept secret he had known since 1882 was that he was suffering from Bright's disease, a fatal kidney disorder. This contributed to Arthur not winning his party's nomination in 1884, becoming the last incumbent President to submit his name for renomination and fail to obtain it.

About 18 months after Arthur's presidency ended in March 1885, he fell very ill on Oct. 1, 1886. On Nov. 16, by his order, nearly all of President Arthur's papers, personal and official, were burned. The next morning he suffered a massive cerebral hemorrhage and never regained consciousness. He died the next day. It is believed that he destroyed incriminating personal paperwork to conceal his lies regarding his birth covered up during his campaign and presidency ... (some have speculated that Obama may have done the same in the days before Election Day 2008, when his grandmother Toots died in Hawaii).

Now, let's compare OTHER similarities between Chester Arthur and Barack Obama.

Back in the Presidential Campaign of 1880, Arthur P. Hinman, an attorney hired by the Democratic party, investigated the rumors that Arthur had been born in a foreign country, was not a “Natural-born Citizen” of the US, and was thus ineligible for the vice-presidency.

However, Chester Arthur had assistance from the Brooklyn Eagle newspaper in 1880 — acting as the FactCheck.org of its day. An article “interviewing” Chester Arthur about Hinman’s accusations (BELOW) was published on August 13, 1880, barely two months before Election Day.

In that article, Chester Arthur defended his birthplace (as Obama and his willing accomplices do today).

Similar to Obama, Chester Arthur’s father William was a British subject, fleeing British-ruled Ireland for Canada then to the US, NOT naturalizing as a US Citizen until 1843. This would have made Chester Arthur, born in 1829, a British subject “at birth” even though he was born in Vermont. This was not commonly known until somewhat recently.

Seemingly, Hinman’s investigation SWALLOWED THE BAIT of disinformation, decoy and distraction of Arthur's PLACE of birth, instead of focusing his investigation on Arthur's status as a British subject at birth.

[Mr Rogers]

“He can’t prove it...”

He has the same evidence I have when I apply for a passport - a birth certificate issued by one of the states (mine is Minnesota). If I needed more proof than that of birth in Minnesota, I couldn’t give it. We moved when I was little, and my parents didn’t stay in touch with anyone. My Dad’s military records were lost in the big fire many years ago.

“... an American mother who married two foreign nationals and took her child with her to another country. She had no particular allegiance to the United States.”

She was, IMHO, a worthless bitch who probably hated America and who, as her son put it, had a thing for men with dark skin. Still American, though. You don’t have to be nice, smart, or loyal to be an American citizen. If you did, no Democrats would be Americans.

“Your assumption that he was born on U.S. soil cannot be proved.”

The birth certificate is proof enough (remember, there are also birth announcements in local papers, comments by eyewitnesses, etc), UNLESS someone has strong evidence to the contrary. If you have it, you will be the first person I met who did. What EVIDENCE do you have that she traveled to Kenya to give birth? EVIDENCE that outweighs the certificate, announcements, witnesses, etc.

“What you admit was that he wasn’t raised solely as an American.”

What I admit is that he didn’t spend his entire life in the US. Neither did I - I lived in Taiwan from 64-66, and Iceland in 69-71. That had nothing to do with my switching allegiance. My sister’s kids lived in Africa for 5 years - all are still Americans. The girls are both married to Marines, and the son is in the US Air Force.

“We don’t know for sure why the little bastard was sent back to Hawaii.”

Simple - his mom didn’t love him any more than his father did. She was a self-centered liberal bitch who didn’t care for her son, and I suspect his racism is rooted in her rejection of him.

I’m 4 for 4.

[lucysmom]

It is a sign of how perverted and racist he is that he doesn’t consider himself white, or at least half-white, half-black.

Perhaps he came to see himself as black because others saw him as black.

The eugenicist Madison Grant of New York wrote in his book, The Passing of the Great Race: "The cross between a white man and an Indian is an Indian; the cross between a white man and a Negro is a Negro; the cross between a white man and a Hindu is a Hindu; and the cross between any of the three European races and a Jew is a Jew."[3]

and

When the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed Virginia's ban on inter-racial marriage in Loving v. Virginia (1967), it declared Plecker's Virginia Racial Integrity Act and the one-drop rule unconstitutional.

What was the one drop rule?

The one-drop rule is a historical colloquial term in the United States for the social classification as black of individuals with any African ancestry.

[Mr Rogers]

“Similar to Obama, Chester Arthur’s father William was a British subject, fleeing British-ruled Ireland for Canada then to the US, NOT naturalizing as a US Citizen until 1843. This would have made Chester Arthur, born in 1829, a British subject “at birth” even though he was born in Vermont.”

Hogwash. Someone born in the USA is an American, with a few exceptions for diplomats, visiting military, etc.

The investigation centered on if he had been born outside of the US. I find it hard to believe it wouldn’t have occurred to an investigator that regardless of when his family moved into the US, that his father wasn’t a citizen. After all, if he had moved to the US recently enough prior to Arthur’s birth that the birthplace was in question, then the father undeniably was NOT a citizen of the US at birth.

The thing you are missing is THAT NO ONE CARED ABOUT THAT! It was his birthplace that was the issue - no one cared that his father was obviously NOT a citizen.

Just as no one cares that Obama’s missing father was Kenyan...

[lucysmom]

If Obama is not legit, he cannot give any orders to anyone.

Obama IS legit until he is proven not legit. Not questioned, proven.

[Mr Rogers]

“Perhaps he came to see himself as black because others saw him as black.”

Maybe I’m made of sterner stuff, or maybe he resents his mother for abandoning him as well. But if I was half-white and half-black, and my white family had cared for me and sent me to the best schools at considerable sacrifice, I think I would view myself as primarily white. Particularly if my black father had never done squat for me!

In any case, I would NOT consider myself to be totally black, as Obama claimed on his census form.

[El Gato]

You're Mister Rodgers, but WE live in fantasy land?

Oh look, de plane, de plane.

The intent of the ‘natural born citizen’ phrase was, if you read folks who ratified the Constitution, to prevent someone from Europe moving here, becoming a citizen, and then running for President. It was to prevent someone whose natural loyalty might lie elsewhere from taking office.

Like someone who would go campaign for his thug cousin in "the old country?"

It has since then been defined by Congress.

Congress has the power only to define a Uniform Rule of, now read closely, NATURALIZATION. Justia refers to those born abroad but citizens at birth under the statutes as statutorily naturalized . It cites ROGERS v. BELLEI, 401 U.S. 815 (1971) as on example of the Supreme Court confirming this.

Congress certainly has no power to define or redefine Constitutional terms. Much mischief would ensue, especially regarding the Bill of Rights, but also delegated powers, if they could.

[pissant]

Just the opposite.

[STARWISE]

Mr. Rogers, I just can’t fathom a quarter century
military service member having such a shallow
concept of the beginnings of this great nation
and the concepts they embedded in our Constitution ..
for sound and vital reasons!

Please, go back to the library and read about the
Founders, their struggles, their protectiveness
for the stability of this nation going forward, and
especially their well-founded documented fears of
any hint of dual national allegiance in the Commander
In Chief.

For God’s sake, they’d suffered mightily breaking
free of the bonds of the English Empire for many,
many years. This country’s structure and sovereignty
was their most precious mission, and they paid and
sacrificed dearly to insure them for future generations,
God bless them.

International subterfuge and skullduggery from scoundrels
were not unfamiliar to them.

Does it make any logical sense at all that they would
consider even a hint of allegiance to another nation by
virtue of foreign parentage in a future POTUS after their
lifetimes ??

Your grasp of the big picture is stunning.

[El Gato]

All obama has to do is end this with a showing of his birth certificate.

Well, no. There would still remain the issue of wether the child of a foreign national can be a Natural Born Citizen. That will take a Court Case, in a court that actually stoops to hear arguments on the merits. That case could originate as a civilian civil case, a civilian criminal case, or as one of the various sorts of military Courts Martial. All roads still lead to the Supreme Court.

[BP2]

Born of an American mother - same.

You SURE do seem infatuated with Obama's mama, Mr Rogers. You're like Parsi who has a hard-on for Orly ...

Regardless of the fact she died 15 years ago, unless you have dark skin and are NOT American, you probably would NOT have stood much chance with Ms Dunham in the first place.

See, this native-born Kansan had particular tastes in men starting the minute she graduated from high school, as her first husband was British/Kenyan, and her second husband was Indonesian.

Now, inter-racial marriages are a personal choice, but she also seeming rejected American values, showing an intense interest in Russian studies before settling down in Indonesia with husband #2. Ann Dunham rejected America, too, as she lived in Indonesia from circa 1966 until her death in 1995, coming to Hawaii occasionally to later enroll in classes at University of Hawaii and, of course, dump her son like a piece of garbage on her parents in December 1971.

PLAINLY PUT, Obama's mama rejected American men, American values and America itself.

It would seem the acorn did fall far from the tree ...
until such time he found he could PROFIT from American politics.

[El Gato]

Why? The Electoral College votes on both president and vice-president. Even if Obama was found to be ineligible that doesn't mean Biden was.

Read the amendments, (12 and 20). They say if a President shall not have qualified, then the VP shall *act* as President until a President shall have qualified. It's not the same situation as when a President dies or is impeached and removed from office.

[El Gato]

Do those guys in the fancy suits with all the ribbons and such look happy and content to anyone?

[BP2]

Just as no one cares that Obama’s missing father was Kenyan...

Ah, nice try, wise guy ... but it's not about Kenya either, as Kenya did not gain its independence from the UK until Dec. 12, 1963.

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948.
That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.

[El Gato]

But if Obama was not eligible on the date when a new administration was to take office, then my guess is that George W. Bush would still be President until such time as a replacement can be elected and take office.

No read the 12th and 20th amendments.

From the 12th

...The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President. — The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

IMHO, they have to have meant eligible persons.

from the 20th

Section. 3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

Keeping in mind that if there is a conflict, the 20th overrides the 12th.

Also indicating that Bush would not still be President also from the 20th amendment

Section. 1. The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.

[pissant]

All soldiers sent to war are getting orders from the CIC.

[El Gato]

Didn't El Gato tell you the Indiana case as ...what did he call it fluff?

Actually I was speaking of the majority of the majority opinion in "Wong Kim Ark".