Posted on 04/18/2011 1:59:33 AM PDT by EternalVigilance
How to elevate the discussion, genius. Nice.
The thing that I think is important, is that there are right-leaning libertarians who aren’t religious yet recognize the generally positive influence that Judeo-Christian philosophy has had on our system of government. The effort to demonize such people is frustrating to me, to say the least.
I hope for the same thing. Original release was going to be in 20-something theaters... it is now in 300.
I am a libertarian-leaning Christian (non-denom protestant) Conservative. :-)
God so loved the world, but He loves the individual too, as He made no one of us alike. I think that our individuality is precious to Him, as evidenced by the government and leftists’ attempts to squeeze it out of us.
Our wonderful daughter, who graduates from high school next month, soaked up “Atlas Shrugged.” We’ve always tried to teach out kids to think, especially about outcomes and unintended consequences. During the film she was alternately cheering and angry in all the appropriate spots. If the consecutive movies hold up, they should be shown in schools...but we know better.
Same with Rand. She's in the same anti-collectivist, pro-capitalist trench I am, so I'm not about to dismiss her because I don't agree with every other opinion. Personally, I'd jump at the chance to shake her hand, were she still alive.
They are not conservatives...and their motives are every bit as selfish as those they throw stones at. Whether it is a Marxist “for the children/village” or a Christian “for Jesus,” using the government to rob Peter to give to Paul is still looting by second-handers.
I would be more comfortable living in a neighborhood of Randites, than in a neighborhood of people who believe that "charity" can and should be compelled at gunpoint, which is the true underlying philosophy of the Welfare State.
Despite Ayn's statements about "selfishness", in Atlas Shrugged (the book) we see many examples of characters going through suffering and cost in order to help those they deem worthy of help, from John Galt spending years as a lowly railroad switch-man in order to guard over Dagny, to "the Wet Nurse" (Tony, the man assigned by the looters to keep an eye on Reardon), who lays down his life for Reardon, being shot attempting to warn Reardon of the looters' plot.
The bottom line is that Ayn is talking about the tendency to label people as "selfish" when they don't really feel like spending their charity on the leeches and parasites of the world, and instead prefer to spend it on those THEY choose as being worthy of it.
Awesome! I'm definitely not "religious", and perhaps you could say that I'm nominally a Christian since I was raised as one...but it's possible that agnostic might be a better term for me (but what a squishy term that people love to hate).
God so loved the world, but He loves the individual too, as He made no one of us alike. I think that our individuality is precious to Him, as evidenced by the government and leftists’ attempts to squeeze it out of us.
Yes, God made us in His image, which in my reading means that we were given the gift of free will and have the capability to be great creators or terrible destroyers. Sounds like we aren't too far apart there.
Our wonderful daughter, who graduates from high school next month, soaked up “Atlas Shrugged.” We’ve always tried to teach out kids to think, especially about outcomes and unintended consequences. During the film she was alternately cheering and angry in all the appropriate spots. If the consecutive movies hold up, they should be shown in schools...but we know better.
Major kudos to you. You've done more than most of us bloviating loudmouths in advancing the cause of liberty. I hope that my little one will turn out the same way when he's a young adult.
They both fail to recognize fundamental human nature. Communism says we should live our lives only for the sake of the community.
Objectivism says that we should live our lives only for the sake of oneself.
But, in the real world, human nature is such that we are selfish, but also have societal needs.
In Rand's world, only a fool would make a small donation to help on a person who has fallen into trouble. But, human nature (not religion) is such that most people want to do it.
Excellent analysis. Perhaps Rand was trying to reclaim the world “selfish” much like how certain minority groups proudly embrace slurs against them in order to neutralize them.
Liberty is not license. There are far too many who equate the two terms. Rand was not a friend of Freedom.
I’ve always thought the comparison between Ayn Rand and Alexis De Tocqueville was an interesting one. Their formative years were both under a monarchy that had an official state religion. To be sure, De Tocqueville’s was not entirely under that system until he was a teenager, Napolean defeated and the restoration of the Bourbons.
The republican influences in France no doubt also helped to form De Tocqueville’s world view. When both came to America they understood what made America great was freedom and liberty. Yet it was only De Tocqueville who understood the thread that weaved all of this liberty together. That thread being the people’s faith in God. While I like Ayn Rand a lot, she never realized that binding thread. Her experience with a state religion in Russia made her reject any form of Christianity.
I think that's EXACTLY what Ayn was doing. Being "selfish" was, in her time, proclaimed as being one of the ultimate evils. She's saying "OK, I'm Selfish. I'm proud of it too. Here's why. What are you going to do about it, schmuck?"
He didn't have to -Objectivism and socialism are flip side of the same coin and ultimately lead to the same result.
Actually, wasn’t Rand all for voluntary acts of charity or donation? (those who studied her more correct me if I’m wrong). In fact, anyone who is in favor of only voluntary giving of time or talent or money is more Christ like than say, Mike Huckabee, who wants to volunteer much of our time and talent for how HE wants to use big government.
Ain’t it ironic that Rand might be more Christ like than Huck?
Anyone remember the old TV show, "Then Came Bronson?"
In one show he was trying to help out a whiny woman, but she didn't want to help herself. He made himself some food and he didn't give her any. He said to her, "You don't work, you don't eat."
I can't find the clip. I saw it a couple years ago.
No.
Spoken like somebody who has never read Ayn's works. See my post #67. The point of Ayn's philosophy is that being poor, in itself, is not a legitimate basis for DEMANDING help as an entitlement.
I help my friends. Over the years I've helped several get back on their feet after they got into hard times. I give my help freely to them because I judge them worthy of help, in that once they get back on their feet they resumed being productive members of society. On the other hand, I detest having my hard-earned money going to support welfare moms who spawn thugs and another generation of welfare moms.
LOL, what's changed?
Exactly. Rearden's brother thought that by virtue of his existence he was automatically "entitled" the the fruit of Hank's labor.
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