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Libertarians Versus Conservatives
Townhall.com ^ | June 11, 2014 | John Stossel

Posted on 06/11/2014 6:23:54 AM PDT by Kaslin

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To: ConservingFreedom; P-Marlowe; xzins; ansel12
I'd like to hear more about the following: What are the pre-conditions for aristocracy of talent? Why do they no longer exist? Can they not be recreated?

You do realize that Chambers was CONDEMNING Ayn Rand's beliefs, don't you?

141 posted on 06/11/2014 10:23:23 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee
Why, yes, I did - thanks for asking. Should that realization somehow preclude my wanting to hear more about those question?
142 posted on 06/11/2014 10:30:18 AM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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question -> questions
143 posted on 06/11/2014 10:31:07 AM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: TBP

Frank Meyer, the man who Ronald Reagan credited with creating what we call conservatism. He gave it a shape, Bill Buckley took it into the arena, Barry Goldwater launched it as a political force, and Ronald Reagan rode it to victory.

Conservatism has a history. It’s worth reading. Meyer also predicted what would happen if the Right simply became about winning, and not ideas. If only he had actually used the term RINO.


144 posted on 06/11/2014 10:33:02 AM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: wagglebee; ConservingFreedom; P-Marlowe; xzins; ansel12

I don’t know Chambers. Who was he?


145 posted on 06/11/2014 10:34:12 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whittaker_Chambers


146 posted on 06/11/2014 10:36:49 AM PDT by ConservingFreedom (A goverrnment strong enough to impose your standards is strong enough to ban them.)
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To: ConservingFreedom; wagglebee; P-Marlowe; xzins; ansel12

I probably should have phrased that “why, in this discussion of libertarians and Rand, should I care who Chambers is?”


147 posted on 06/11/2014 10:40:29 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
Whittaker Chambers was a communist and Soviet spy in the 1920s and 1930s.

He eventually became disenchanted with communism and had a profound conversion to Christianity and became a conservative. He was the person disclosed that Alger Hiss was a Soviet spy.

His autobiography (and also an expose of the evils of communism/socialism) is named "Witness" and it is an amazing book (Ronald Reagan said that it was one of the reasons he became a conservative).

148 posted on 06/11/2014 10:43:58 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee; P-Marlowe

What is his connection to libertarianism and this discussion?


149 posted on 06/11/2014 10:49:31 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
The connection that I made was his 1957 review and condemnation of "Atlas Shrugged."
150 posted on 06/11/2014 10:54:01 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: DManA

Conservatism vs. Libertarianism?
Maybe we could change the argument to:
Liberalism vs. Constitutionalism
-I’m on the side of the Constitution.


151 posted on 06/11/2014 10:56:12 AM PDT by folkquest (I plan on being cranky for the next 4 years. Hope to crack a political smile at the midterms!)
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To: folkquest

And limited government, and a restoration of Federalism.


152 posted on 06/11/2014 10:57:37 AM PDT by DManA
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To: xzins

-— Are you an official OG, STAquinas? :>) -—

That’s what my kids tell me 8-)


153 posted on 06/11/2014 11:41:50 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: folkquest

Too bad the war is libertarians trying to destroy conservatism.

But I am familiar with the technique you libbers use, it was cute.


154 posted on 06/11/2014 11:57:11 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: ansel12

I would like to hear what Rand Paul has to say about the prisoner swap, Benghazi, and the warehoused immigrant children.

All the Libertarians and Rand Paul want to talk about is Hillary.


155 posted on 06/11/2014 12:00:30 PM PDT by Eva
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To: Sherman Logan
our attempts to create or support democracy around the world have made us new enemies,

Sometimes. In Germany, Japan, and post-Cold War eastern Europe, they made us allies and friends.

156 posted on 06/11/2014 12:38:29 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard

Yup. Mixed bag.


157 posted on 06/11/2014 12:49:00 PM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: ArtDodger
The use of the concept of "policing" has a long history in the media and usually in a negative context, but is a very misleading metaphor. More appropriate is to consider the use of the military to project our strength and protect our interests in a world that is ultimately governed by force.

Nature abhors a vacuum, and that includes political power vacuums. If we don't make a serious footprint, someone else will, and most likely not by a friendly nation.

Military power is necessary to achieve this aim, for without it all the "diplomacy" in the world is just talk. But lacking the political will to project power, all the military power in the world means nothing. It takes both, because if, as Clausewitz observed, "war is the continuation of politics by other means," then the power to potentially wage war is necessary to achieving political goals without actually having to do it.

158 posted on 06/11/2014 12:51:29 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Kaslin

This is a depressing thread. How can there be conservatives who don’t know who Whittaker Chambers was? Whose first reaction to Frank Meyer is to dismiss him as a Communist? 70-80 years ago, there wasn’t “conservatism” as we know it today. There were various forms of traditionalists and libertarians who were opposed to the progressive, liberal direction of things, but there wasn’t an intellectual or political movement to rally around.

Several important thinkers and writers contributed to the movement that saw its apex in the election Ronald Reagan. You can be against gay marriage and abortion all you want, and that’s fine and I hope you vote, but if you don’t know why and how conservatism is what it is, you will all too easily wind up lost in the Bushes. You will not be ready to advance the cause without knowing why conservatives believe what they believe. It’s not a grab bag of positions on issues, nor is it simply a political confederacy for winning elections.

I cannot recommend strongly enough American Conservative Thought in the Twentieth Century (a/k/a Did You Ever See a Dream Walking).

http://www.amazon.com/Walking-American-Conservative-Thought-Twentieth/dp/0672512408


159 posted on 06/11/2014 1:03:24 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: DManA
For half of Freepers, the word “libertarian” goes in eyeballs, the brain stops working.

With good reason.

Libertarians ever go so "by the book," that they are forever stuck working at one remove from actual reality....

160 posted on 06/11/2014 2:24:46 PM PDT by betty boop (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God. —Thomas Jefferson)
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