Posted on 06/09/2015 7:17:30 AM PDT by Leaning Right
not in terms of a democracy——that was never going to happen
Actually, Rumfeld was not a fan of nation-building in Iraq. He made that clear at the time. In GWB’s defense, there were strategic reasons that made it a reasonable thing to try. But we handled it badly, didn’t follow thru, and failed.
“What did he do about it at the time?”
IIRC, he made his views known. I was in the military at the time, so I may have seen and heard more than what was reported in the papers. But I knew he wasn’t a fan of going in and rebuilding Iraq in our image.
But if we had succeeded in doing so, there would have been huge benefits. It was just a risky strategy that didn’t pay off. Those things happen in war.
Do something about it? He had two options once the decision was made. Follow orders, or resign. Period.
Oh, no. we were never going to “check for WMDs”. The war was sold — sold hard — on the narrative that they had the WMDs, that we knew where they were (though curiously we were never able to find the phone number of the UN inspectors so they could be told where to look), and that these were the sort of WMDs that could be delivered to the US and result in a mushroom cloud. That was the Bush Administration’s terroristic threat employed to stampede the American people into this dishonor and disaster.
Rumsfeld is filth.
Those are strong words, and sure to upset some folks here on FR. But history will record that the Iraqi invasion was the most harmful foreign policy decision in US history, far worse than even the tragedy of Vietnam.
So yeah, I have very little respect for Rumsfeld. He and Bush might have had the best of intentions, but at the end of the day it's the results that matter.
I think Islam hardwires its adherents to either the boot of a dictator or the boot of an imam.
Rumsfeld is correct—nothing wrong with him stating the obvious.
Too bad Bush didn’t listen to him on the subject at the time, as I doubt he shared Bush’s fanciful illusion then.
But it was also correct for him not to speak out at the time, as long as he was part of Bush’s team.
It's hard to argue against that. But it raises an interesting question. At what point does an adventure become so risky that a public official should expose it by resigning?
I know I'm doing some Monday morning quarterbacking here. But so is Rumsfeld.
Bush should have ignored Powell and listened to Rumsfeld on Iraq. Kill the threat to the US and go home. How do you make a third world sewer into a democracy without a multi-generational effort, you don’t.
Yep, that’s a fair question. Apparently Rumsfeld wasn’t at that point at the time, at least.
In retrospect, perhaps he should have been.
Actually the war was won and just like Vietnam the dems surrendered.
Yes, the Shinto supremacists were more stubborn, powerful, vicious than the Arabs so frankly it would be easier to impose democracy.
We successfully imposed democracy on Iraq from 2005 until about 2010.
The Anti-Americans in Iraq and America colluded to bring the whole thing down
It frankly infuriates me that people at FR collaborate with fools like Rand Paul to agree to such premises.
We will convert the Arab world to democracy or else they will disseminate the nuclear weapons in Pakistan to such a point that we become persuaded to the necessity of the task.
The idea that the Arabs will somehow leave us alone is deluded.
They were dancing in the streets when the planes hit the towers.
Wake up America!
You have no other options.
The neoisoloationist circle jerk is the ongoing disaster.
I guess we just have to wait for TSA to allow in the next massive attack.
That will not take long—sadly.
Patton didn’t save Bastogne. Good grief. Bastogne saved Patton, for two months.
BS, both are holy-on-the floor global socialist-fascists. Good grief, what does it take for clean insight?
You are referring to October/November '44.
\
Really?
Fallujah, from Wiki
"A third push was mounted from September 2006 and lasted until mid-January 2007. Tactics developed in what has been called the "Third Battle of Fallujah," when applied on a larger scale in Ramada and the surrounding area, led to what became known as "the Great Sunni Awakening." After four years of bitter fighting, Fallujah was turned over to the Iraqi Forces and the Iraqi Provincial Authority during the autumn of 2007."
FYI the Great Sunni Awakening fighters are now in ISIS.
General Shinseki, the top general in the Army, warned Bush and Romsfeld that more troops (lots more troops) would be needed to pacify a post war Iraq. That he was correct is now all to evident. By not planning and successfully implementing a proper occupation of Iraq Bush lost Iraq to ISIS. Yeah O certainly deserved his share of the blame. He might have been able to turn things around had he been inclined to do so, but he was not so inclined. And you are correct, at some point the west will be forced to face the monster it helped create.
Nation building can not be done on the cheap. It takes a multi generational effort, hundreds of thousands of troops and trillions of dollars.
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