Posted on 01/29/2016 9:11:08 AM PST by Jeff Head
You said yourself that he reached towards his waist on two occasions. Police in Cleveland shot a 12 year old boy for less justification than that and that was ruled a justified shooting. This would appear to be the same kind if situation, and probably result in the same type of ruling.
I agree.
Law Enforcement (including local state and federal) decided to escalate it and end it at whatever cost.
To this point Bundy and the people with himhad threatened no one with harm.
I also believe that they had been given safe passage to John Day as a ruse to lure them out to that remote road.
I also hope and pray...and demand...that the legal proceedings focus on just what you have said.
These people focuses a light on things that are critical and important for anyone who loves this nation, its constitution, and the liberty if affords.
We must make suire their sacrifice is not in vain.
And one more thought after reading the Feds statement: The LEO’s had been briefed that the group was probably armed. According to their statement he attempted to reach inside his jacket twice and then after he was dead they did find a 9mm in that jacket pocket. At no point apparently, did the firing officer(s) see a gun.
Assuming that is all true, here’s my question. Why do domestic LEO’s have lesser rules of engagement against U.S. citizens than our troops do when dealing with jihadis?
As far as the overall situation is concerned, I really don't know enough about it to comment one way or another.
Humble as ever I see.
Now back to business for the both of us.
[[They were going to a meeting with a SHERIFF.]]
Where it must be pointed out they would very likely have been made to disarm before meeting with the Sherrif- it likely was a meeting to surrender=- odd behavior once again for such a dangerous man who stated he would die before being arrested- and the fact he came out of the vehicle hands up in a passive gesture-
There was no need for this confrontation and death
Well, I hope there is another clean copy of the video out there, because the only thing I saw after clicking the link was:
“The requested document does not exist on this server.” With the “404” code...
Law enforcement has to be fired on first? Because if that's the case then what about the dozens of police shootings that have been in the news where they were not fired on, and those have been ruled justifiable?
Shooting a man in the back.
If he thought his partner was in danger then what should he have done?
I believe that the officers on the ground...presuming that the video is accurate and I believe at this point it is...were left with little choice.
Lavoy fled a stop by law enforcement.
He tried to avoid a road block set up be law enforcement.
In coming as close as he did to the one officer who stepped out to try and stop him, he risked that officer’s life.
When he got out of the vehicle, instead of getting down and lying prone with his hands out, to show no possibility of a threat, he acted erratically.
He appeared on two occasion to lower his hands and reach to his side.
I clearly believe this situation should never have developed...but it did, and the officers on the ground, given all of this, were left with little choice.
It is tragic...a good man is dead who should not be dead.
The major decisions putting those officers there need to be aggressively reviewed and in the light of day examined for criminal negligence.
But the officers there at the scene, at least in my opinion from this video...did not execute or murder this man.
From the names that have been mentioned it appears that a lot of the leaders of those holding the federal facility - Bundy, Finicum, others - were in this convoy. It's likely that the operation was launched with the intent of grabbing them all at once and ending the standoff by cutting off its head. Hence the confrontation.
This is negligence or keystone cops
[[I also believe that they had been given safe passage to John Day as a ruse to lure them out to that remote road.]]
If this truly is the case, then this fact alone escalates this to another level- especially in light of the fact that, as you point out, no violence had occurred AND the fact that the group was going to meet peacefully with the sheriff
[[We must make suire their sacrifice is not in vain.]]
Unfortunately it will be in vain as not many people will bother looking into the facts, and the ones that do will be labeled ‘conspiracy theorists’ or ‘anti-gubmint wackos’ and the public will be fine with either of those two conclusions and will simply accept whatever the police state happened after their ‘investigation’ - Had this been a black man who was shot like this however, it would be a whole different ballgame
No, Sheriff Palmer in Grant Country was sympathetic to these people and had already spoken on their behalf. He was viewed, and in fact was, an friend.
I doubt that they would have been disarmed, and if they were meeting with him as reported, I doubt it was specifically to surrender.
He may have advised it at that point, but only after a very honest conversation.
Rubber bullets against a man who had been seen armed and had announced he wouldn’t be arrested alive? A man who was feeling a stop by LEOs?
I’m on the ranchers’ side in the land fight but Lavoy got himself killed by way of a string of dumb acts.
He said he wouldn’t be taken alive and he made sure that happened. Luckily he didn’t kill anyone during the episode.
And they were going to a meeting with a sheriff and would have disarmed during that meeting
And the so-called “federal building” they were occupying was a firefighter shack in a park closed for the winter with no one around.
totally unnecessary
Thanks for this.
My question is where were they going and why.
Thanks for your post Jeff. Interesting and insightful analysis.
I question whether or not this whole event, orchestrated by law enforcement, was even necessary. It placed everyone’s lives in potential danger, and all t took was one wrong move, whether intentional or not, to cause a man to lose his life.
Unnecessary action and frankly, over-reaction by law enforcement has become the norm, and I make that statement while sitting in the murder capital of the United States, Chicago Illinois. I passed through the second worst gang and drug infested neighborhood in the city to get to work today.
I don’t know who my life is in more danger from: the Chicago Police and their shoot first, cover it up later mentality, or the gang bangers. My heart skips a beat and my stomach sinks at the sight of both.
“It’s odd to say that and then exit the vehicle with hands up.”
Yeah, but notice, he never stops moving after he exits the vehicle.
Anyone who has seen a few episodes of “COPS” knows, even without hearing the audio, that those officers would have been instructing him to get on his knees, get on the ground, etc. Yet he is ignoring those commands and continuing to move away from the police and towards the treeline. So it seems to me that he had no intention to comply with the police.
[[When he got out of the vehicle, instead of getting down and lying prone with his hands out, to show no possibility of a threat, he acted erratically.]]
There may have been a very good reason for this- IF they had been firing at the vehicle, He was likely getting himself as far away fro mthe vehicle as possible to try to protect the occupants of the vehicle by drawing fire away from the truck
[[Lavoy fled a stop by law enforcement.]]
There may be a reason for that too- according to witness- the stopped vehicle was fired at several times-
[[In coming as close as he did to the one officer who stepped out to try and stop him, he risked that officer’s life.]]
Actually, the officer is the one who reacted recklessly- (perhaps because he thought the truck was going to hit the vehicles and push the vehicle into him)- it is clear fro mthe video that Finicum tried to avoid the vehicles, and was braking- I saw nothing intentional about his driving that might have indicated he tried to hit anything or anyone
[[He appeared on two occasion to lower his hands and reach to his side.]]
Again, why? TReaching for gun? Was shot with stun gun? Was shot with real guns?
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