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Free Trade and the De-Industrialization of the United States
economyincrisis ^ | 4/5/16 | McKenna Service Company

Posted on 04/06/2016 5:07:12 AM PDT by central_va

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To: BroJoeK

That is a stupid analogy. The factories didn’t disappear, THEY WERE MOVED TO ASIA AND ELSEWHERE. The analogy falls apart immediately.


21 posted on 04/06/2016 6:38:50 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

[ Every time the Left tries to take a populist whack at Big Business (like the California minimum wage law), they do absolutely nothing to hurt Big Business with its armies of lawyers and lobbyists - but they end up punching smaller businesses right in the face. When called on this, they get defensive - and their arguments always boil down to it being their good intentions that count, not the results. ]

BINGO and NAILED IT!

In fact a lot of Big Biz that is in Bed with Big Gov, write the laws for Big Gov to “sound good” to the populist socialist agrarian MUSH on the outside, but the laws and regs are used as a TOOL to keep their competition DOWN.

Remove a lot of these “Internal Tariffs” and the big boys then have to compete against small and mid level operators, can someone say TIMBER in the OLD BIG BIZ grown forests, followed by the NEW sound of Vigorous YOUNG Tree growth?

Business should be like Forests, right now the Big Gov is keeping the old growth / dead wood intact and preventing the cleansing forest fires and keeping the tree seeds falling on the forest floor from growing... They keep doing this and sooner or later we will see a CATASTROPHIC forest fire as all the undergrowth if gonna burn.... Trees need to grow, get big fall over and spring forth new life, the cycles of nature / business is not being served by keeping a decrepit forest (Big Biz/ Big Gov. Alliance) alive....


22 posted on 04/06/2016 6:41:55 AM PDT by GraceG (The election doesn't pick the next president, it is an audition for "American Emperor"...)
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To: sickoflibs

It is not just automation. You are stupidly or deceitfully confusing the automation issue with offshoring. The issues are unrelated. Automation reduces all manufacturing jobs every where, off shoring reduces jobs in the USA. Do you get the difference?.


23 posted on 04/06/2016 6:42:24 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
Until these feckless idiots are taken out of power, 100% tariffs on every single import won't lead to any improvement in the domestic employment rate.

How about a completed embargo, a tariff taken to its logical extreme, what effect would that have?

24 posted on 04/06/2016 6:44:13 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: BroJoeK; All

in case some of you missed it


25 posted on 04/06/2016 6:44:28 AM PDT by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc;+12, 73, ....carson was my guy but now is a Trumplican)
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To: BroJoeK

——The rest of us will work in services.——

My part time retirement job is service to manufacturers


26 posted on 04/06/2016 6:45:30 AM PDT by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc;+12, 73, ....carson was my guy but now is a Trumplican)
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To: riverdawg; InterceptPoint; central_va
riverdawg: "You’re wasting your time trying to convince the Luddites here on FR with these inconvenient facts."

Oh, I think most understand it, but that doesn't change the levels of frustration for people who lose good jobs, for whatever reasons.

In Mr. Trump's promise to "make America great again", many people forget that "make" is a synonym for "build" and "manufacture".
People, especially men, want to make, build & manufacture in America.
It helps explain Mr. Trump's popularity.

27 posted on 04/06/2016 6:45:54 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: BroJoeK

Its gonna be a bitch when eventually we reach the point where oil production peaks, and then enters decline. Resources aren’t infinite. We don’t grow corn, we manufacture corn using fossil-fuels. (Haber-Bosch)

Right now we are in a glut.

Should be interesting to see which wins the race, oil depletion, Mexican-overrun/Reconquista, or Muslims-in-Europe. Or China becoming dominant.

The West and its way of life is doomed. And the cute thing, trying to replace fossil-fuels with alternatives... guess what, most of those alternatives require rare earth metals. Guess which country has the most rare earth metals; yup, China. (US has like one major mine owned by Molycorp)


28 posted on 04/06/2016 6:47:56 AM PDT by baltimorepoet
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To: central_va
RE:”Automation reduces all manufacturing jobs every where, off shoring reduces jobs in the USA. Do you get the difference?.”

Unless you can prove that the US is not part of ‘everywhere’ your point is pointless.

Automation is stealing US jobs just like trade is.

Machines/computers are replacing Americans.

29 posted on 04/06/2016 6:49:08 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Trumpees :"He could go on a shooting spree downtown and I would still worship him"')
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To: BroJoeK
The changes in agricultural productivity you cite caused extreme displacement in the rural areas of the country. Farms that had been owned and operated by families for generations could no longer compete with the industrial producers who controlled tens of thousands of acres, so they were forced to sell.

That worked in a lot of cases because the displaced farmers could move to industrial jobs, where the skills they'd acquired over a lifetime could be put to good use. Where are the displaced industrial workers going to go? "Services?" is a simplistic answer at best. In order to provide a service, someone has to be willing to pay for it. What are the employers of services going to use for money?

It's not that I think this requires a government solution, or even that there IS one. But any rush to embrace technological enhancements to productivity comes at a human cost. We need to anticipate that eventuality.

30 posted on 04/06/2016 6:52:05 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: bert
bert: "My part time retirement job is service to manufacturers."

Mine is in service to farmers.

31 posted on 04/06/2016 6:53:12 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: Buckeye McFrog
Those ex-farmers spent the first half of the 20th. Century flocking into cities to take industrial jobs. Where do you propose that they go next?

Its obvious where they can go; they can do "services". I.e. be nannies, toe-nail-clipper, massage therapist, foot washer, toe-jam-cleaner, doorman, chauffeur, cook for the people who own the companies that are benefiting from selling them out to foreigners. Assuming those jobs aren't done by illegal immigrants.
32 posted on 04/06/2016 6:53:23 AM PDT by baltimorepoet
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To: central_va; sickoflibs; bert
central_va: "The factories didn’t disappear, THEY WERE MOVED TO ASIA AND ELSEWHERE.
The analogy falls apart immediately."

You missed the part of those charts which show US manufacturing output keeps growing, even as employment falls.
The "villain" here is automation as much as anything else.
Note US worker productivity growth since 1947:


33 posted on 04/06/2016 6:53:34 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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To: GraceG
Domestic over regulation and over taxation do not prevent us form making widgets here. Those things cause inflation perhaps a few pennies on the dollar. They prevent nothing.

I agree they are bad things but go after them as a separated issue. But offshoring for the cheapest labor has nothing to do with it.

"Movement" conservatives, God bless their little hearts, have been brainwashed into this ruse by big cap corporation and our corrupt government. They get you on board with the anti regulations / anti tax rhetoric when in fact those are used as political cover for the real hidden goal which is searching the world for the cheapest labor. So called movement conservatives fall for the bait everytime. When will you learn?

34 posted on 04/06/2016 6:53:42 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: GraceG

Do you support Cruz?


35 posted on 04/06/2016 6:54:12 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: DugwayDuke

Do you support Cruz?


36 posted on 04/06/2016 6:54:29 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: BroJoeK

Hard to disagree with you on people’s perception about manufacturing jobs and Trump’s promises. But the reality is what it is.

There is plenty of work to do in this country. If the government would just get out of the way people would go back to work just like they always have.


37 posted on 04/06/2016 6:54:35 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: bert

Do you support Cruz?


38 posted on 04/06/2016 6:55:11 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: bert
Absent the imported goods, the economy would not be functioning at all

Absent imports, either thru tariffs, embargos or quotas, the nation would be going gangbusters to build replacement manufacturing capacity and the economy would be going gang busters. What an economic idiot you are.

39 posted on 04/06/2016 6:58:00 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: BroJoeK

BOOM, great post!


40 posted on 04/06/2016 6:58:36 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Trumpees :"He could go on a shooting spree downtown and I would still worship him"')
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