'China must be prepared to TOPPLE Kim Jong-un or WE'LL do it', former US chief claims (Condi)

Express ^ | May 8, 2017 | VINCENT WOOD

[Windflier]

She shares part of blame by offering only carrots to woo N. Korea, which made things worse.

I'm no Condi apologist, but the Secretary of State doesn't formulate foreign policy - the president does. She was carrying out the wishes of her boss at the time.

She's absolutely right about the current situation with North Korea.

[morphing libertarian]

I am discussing the responsibilities of the SOS.

We know what Rice did, it was done in public and we know she is a pathological liar at any cost.

We know what Hillary did because she lied on the faces of the Benghazi family and because she was too stupid to not lock up her e-mails and because so many people know what she is, they came forward after they left her employment.

This does not correlate to the relationship between president and his closest cabinet member.

You need to step it up logically. Or you can admit now that you were just guessing.

[Windflier]

Are Susan Rice and Condoleeza Rice sisters ?

Besides being black and sharing the same surname, there's no resemblance whatsoever between those two women.

No, they're not related.

[plain talk]

One can say all they want about Rice and Bush doing little about NK but the Bush regime demonstrated they are more than willing to invade a country when they wanted to.

With NK and Iran all we have is talk, missile launches and vague understandings about their ongoing nuclear programs. That may be enough for some to invade but so far none of our Presidents have been willing to invade NK or Iran. I predict Trump will do nothing either about them either until they make a first move.

What Trump appears to be doing is ratcheting up the pressure in the hope that NK makes a fatal mistake. He seems to be calling their bluff IMO but in truth he really hasn’t done any more than previous Presidents thus far. It’s all talk on both sides.

I also don’t see why there is this sole focus on NK. What about Iran? What is the logic for invading NK but not Iran?

[dragnet2]

Man, Rice pops out of nowhere giving advice and recommendations?

Gezuz...everyone wants in on it...

[TigerLikesRooster]

No, not really. As I said, Bush was not a policy wonk. He gets proposals and decide which one to accept. Condi was not a robot, and an active participant in the process of formulating one. She was reportedly one of the most trusted members of his administration. A board member formulates a plan and emphatically argues for it, and CEO accepts. The plan fails and the said board member is not to blame because CEO gave a final approval? Who came up with the idea in the first place?

[Windflier]

It was her agenda which Bush accepted.

Bush, like all presidents, relied not just on the input and opinions of his cabinet officials, he relied a great deal on our intelligence community to provide him with raw data to formulate foreign policy.

Even though she was Secretary of State, Condi would have been just one voice among many in Bush's ear.

[TigerLikesRooster]

Yours is more of a guessing than mine. So we cannot say anything if we are not there. Since nobody can know it 100%, no argument on the subject is valid.

[flaglady47]

“Man, Rice pops out of nowhere giving advice and recommendations?”

Rice must be bored. She’s angling for a position in the Trump Admin.

[Rusty0604]

May be, but she was not the president.

[AmericanInTokyo]

Excellent points, TLR and spot on as usual. Just as you have been over the last 15 years or so here on FR

[TigerLikesRooster]

So do you want me to bash Bush and Condi as a package? I am willing to do that, too. How do you know she is a bit player? SOS is the principal figure formulating foreign policy. She has a great say in choosing what data to consider or ignore, and decide which approach will work, especially because she enjoys great confidence of Bush.

[Windflier]

A board member formulates a plan and emphatically argues for it, and CEO accepts.

The White House isn't a board room, with the CEO and a few top guys deciding the direction of the company. It's a far more complicated operattion than that.

When it comes to dealing with a rogue, belligerent nation like North Korea, it's more like a major think tank operation with massive intel and input from all the most important divisions, departments, agencies, advisors, etc.

The President doesn't take the advice of one lone cabinet member and run with it. Not in those kinds of situations.

[TigerLikesRooster]

Yeah, Eichman was not a Fuhrer. He formulated a gas chamber operation and sent it to Hitler, which he approved. So why was Eichman executed for his crime?

[Windflier]

SOS is the principal figure formulating foreign policy.

Sorry, but it simply doesn't work that way at all. If Condi was soft with North Korea, it's because she was carrying out the policy of her boss - not her own.

[BestPresidentEver]

We don’t need military force to get rid of Kim. Offer him $100M and citizenship in a nice country and he’ll go. Offer his generals the money and they will make him go. Offer each NK soldier who surrenders a tuna melt and no one needs to get hurt. NK is a paper tiger, just blow on it and its over.

[TigerLikesRooster]

Big corporation has many departments, too. In the end, it is the board members who decide how to proceed. People on this level have their agenda or vision. They push it. If a said board member enjoys great confidence of CEO, his input matters a lot more than others. It is not uncommon that people on the ground send all kind of information and assessment, but not all get the same weight. People on the top filter them out to suit their agenda. If a board member is one specialized area, say if somebody is CIO, he is given the most voice when it comes to which vendor to choose to overhaul their computer systems. Yeah, there are others who can also whisper to CEO’s, even his son majoring in Computer Science, but he is not running the system and has no knowledge of what is going on.

There are think-tank members who have been publishing their ideas for years, ones which actually turns out to be correct, but their publications have been gathering dust because their idea does not suit top guy's preconception or agenda. Whose preconception or agenda matter more? CEO who does not know much about the subject, or the one in charge of that area?

[TigerLikesRooster]

Unless she was the one pushing the idea. Whose seal was on the document is not really the problem. We are not arguing about bureaucratic procedure.

[weston]

If Condi was soft with North Korea, it’s because she was carrying out the policy of her boss - not her own.

Agreed.

Condi was one of Bush’s cabinet I admired. Smart as hell. I also admired Cheney and Rummy. Hated Baker, Rove and thought Bush himself was a squish out of his depth.

[lee martell]

I think the Trump Team wanted to talk to Condi late last year, but she was ‘washing her hair’ at the time, and could not commit to a meeting.