Canada won the War of 1812, U.S. historian admits

NATIONAL POST ^ | 11/27/11 | RANDY BOSWELL

[familyop]

Hmmm. What could have being going through their minds? Ally with Napoleon or Crazy King George III? ...Napoleon or insane George III?

;-)

No, really, I thought the U.S. was neutral with respect to the Napoleonic wars. Napoleon probably liked seeing the U.S. get into it with Britain, and likewise on the part of the U.S. But I don’t recall any alliance or real assistance between the two. The U.S. wanted to stay out of European affairs.

[Jed Eckert]

Well that does it!

[kearnyirish2]

Moved there after the Revolution? They were expelled, and their properties seized (some ended up on British islands as well). We had no use for monarchists after the Revolution.

If you see the forts on the Canadian side of the border (mostly museums today), it is hard to believe they viewed it as a victory.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

I thought the U.S. was neutral with respect to the Napoleonic wars. Napoleon probably liked seeing the U.S. get into it with Britain, and likewise on the part of the U.S. But I don’t recall any alliance or real assistance between the two. The U.S. wanted to stay out of European affairs.

You have to consider the fact that Monroe, having been tasked with negotiating with Napoleon to obtain New Orleans so as to open up American trade via the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico, ended up with the Louisiana Purchase agreement. The proceeds of which Napoleon used to fund a fleet (which the British succeeded in sinking). There was no reason the British would have liked that.

After burning Washington but finding that taking Baltimore would be “too hard,” the British fleet sailed to New Orleans to steal (not the word they would have used) the cotton and other supplies they expected to find there. What they found instead, of course, was Andrew Jackson, who soundly thrashed the veteran British army in a battle after the treaty ending the war had been negotiated (but not yet known of on this side of the Atlantic).

[Jimmy Valentine]

We invaded Canada in 1812 just like we tried during the Revolution. The Canadians repulsed the invasion at Quebec and we retreated back to the U.S. However, the Canadians did not follow up with an invasion of their own. They won the battle but not the War of 1812 (the hosers!).

[mewzilla]

What’s Canada?

[Gay State Conservative]

The healthcare system is already broke here, there’s nothing left to break.

I'm not so sure of that.I get to Montreal on a semi regular basis and the drive west from the "Eastern Townships" toward the city is quite nice and the parts of the city I've visited also seem nice.

Also I driven from Winnipeg toward Michigan and thought that was pretty good too.

Add to that the time I got lost in suburban Toronto (don't ask me exactly where,I was *really* lost) and found the neighborhoods I was in to be quite nice (very much "upper middle class" by US standards) and I'd say that yours might be an unfairly pessimistic analysis.

[AU72]

Great Britain must have been sorely tempted to intervene in the US Civil War but feared extreme blowback if they backed a losing cause.

[iowamark]

Many upper class Brits sympathized with the Confederates but the middle and working classes opposed slavery strongly. British and French imperialists hoped to profit from breaking up the United States. France had invaded Mexico and installed Maximilian as Emperor. The British government would have had great domestic difficulty in siding with the Confederates, as Louis Napoleon of France proposed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_intervention_in_Mexico

[af_vet_1981]

Moved there after the Revolution? They were expelled, and their properties seized (some ended up on British islands as well). We had no use for monarchists after the Revolution.

We ? I did not think anyone here was that old.

When their cause was defeated, about 15% of the Loyalists (65,000–70,000 people) fled to other parts of the British Empire, to Britain itself, or to British North America (now Canada). The southern colonists moved mostly to Florida, which had remained loyal to the Crown, and to British Caribbean possessions, often bringing along their slaves. Northern Loyalists largely migrated to Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick, and Nova Scotia. They called themselves United Empire Loyalists. Most were compensated with Canadian land or British cash distributed through formal claims procedures. Exiled Loyalists received £3 million or about 37% of their losses from the British government. Loyalists who stayed in the U.S. were generally able to retain their property and become American citizens.[2]

Historians have estimated that between 15 and 20 percent of the 2 million whites in the colonies in 1775 were Loyalists, or about 300-400,000 men, women and children.[3]

[Professional Engineer]

Wrong war. lol.

[Bringbackthedraft]

It was the only USA vs. Canada war I heard about. I know we have been invaded by Canadians many times, actually in a couple of more weeks this years invasion will begin down here in Fla.

[familyop]

Maybe the British didn’t know that Jefferson threatened through a diplomat in France to ally with the British (among other things), if the purchase wasn’t completed. The French were also largely considered by Protestants in the U.S. to be a foreign culture.

But still, I’d long forgotten what you just told me. The British would have been suspicious about the possibility of a U.S. alliance with the French. That’s a good point. Thank you. Good learning! I should also have remembered that it’s not a good idea to argue seriously about the War of 1812-1815. Too complicated! ;-)

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

I should also have remembered that it’s not a good idea to argue seriously about the War of 1812-1815. Too complicated! ;-)

My #51 contains a link to a good recent book on the War of 1812, and a quote from its concluding paragraphs. But, as you suggest, one book can’t begin to do the period justice.

[Professional Engineer]

The pig war was in 1867 over the San Juan islands.

[Pikachu_Dad]

We have a different definition of Neutral then.

Your definition seems to involve both countries fighting against the third country.

Can you say ‘Coordinated Attack’? I knew you could.

“On June 18, 1812, President James Madison, after receiving heavy pressure from the War Hawks in Congress, signed the American declaration of war into law.”

“The French invasion of Russia ... began on 24 June 1812 when Napoleon’s Grande Armée crossed the Neman River in an attempt to engage and defeat the Russian army”

Hmmm.

As Hillary would say, “Coordinated, as in matching uniforms?”

[Pikachu_Dad]

The sacking of Washington!

A very disgraceful day for American arms.

A small, very small British force of only about 5,000 was able to march on and seize and burn Washington !

The far more numerous US forces completely failed.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

American forces were not well led. And some of that is down to Commander-in-Chief Madison’s direct participation in command.

All in all, a lashup.

[familyop]

Thanks!

[piasa]

It was the only USA vs. Canada war I heard about. I know we have been invaded by Canadians many times, actually in a couple of more weeks this years invasion will begin down here in Fla.

Yup... they have arrived and their Maple Leaf flag is now unfurled and flying down at the RV/trailer park on the corner...