Posted on 02/07/2020 9:46:23 PM PST by varina davis
Edited on 02/07/2020 10:31:39 PM PST by Jim Robinson. [history]
Viking Cruises were a sponsor of the Democratic debate.
Lifetime ban, please—catch no diseases and stop subsidizing the left!
My God, how long ago was that. I went to Yokohama in 2011 and it was nothing like that.
Norwalk
People continue talking about the 14-day quarantine, but that length is selected as the maximum time from exposure to development of symptoms. If no one on board has symptoms in 14 days the whole ship is considered safe. But if they are hauling diseased people off the ship the 14 day count should be restarted each time. They shouldn't let everyone off the ship into the general population on day 14 if someone with the corona virus coughed on them on day 13.
“I heard a cruise ship executive moaning and groaning about how bad the cruise business is. Said it was down 80%. I bet it will be worse than that before its over.”
It looks as though the cruise lines played the ‘short game’ by trusting the ‘authorities’ and continued sailings (particularly in Asia), rather than simply cancelling and getting on with deferred maintenance and/or upgrades.
They will now pay a HUGE PRICE for their decisions. I think Asia is gone for them, for at least a decade. And the rest of the world will be hit hard too. The Yokohama stories are horrific for their business and there are still boats sailing out there in Asia, and so there will be more stories coming...bank on it.
Dad was stationed there in the 1950s.
I remember waking up at 3 AM when the neighborhood honeybucket campaign would get started.
50 or 60 well used empties would be stacked up in an empty lot. The three wheel pumper truck would service the homes and return to fill the buckets.
1958. 8>)
One reason why I will never go on a cruise ship is that diseases can spread rapidly.
.
The problem here is the NHC, WHO and CDC are playing the same semantic game of what is “airborne” versus what is “droplet” infection and while utterly blacking out the issue of 2019-nCoV FOMITE transmission, which happened in the 2014 Dallas Ebola outbreak.
The first article line & extract below is a condensed popular health article from the UK Daily Mail The second is taken from the American Society of Microbiology on the transmission of viruses in modern society and how to prevent them.
1. Why you really do need to wash your hands at work: Infections can spread from an office door handle to half the workforce in just two HOURS
“The Study found between 40 and 60 per cent of office contaminated in two hours Pushing buttons in lifts and touching phones spread infection quickest Disinfectant wipes and regularly washing hands is best way to kill germs Infections can spread from an office door handle to half the workforce in just two hours, new research has found. Using tracer viruses, a study found as much as 60 per cent of workers in the building carried the bug planted after 120 minutes...”
2. Significance of Fomites in the Spread of Respiratory and Enteric Viral Disease
http://aem.asm.org/content/73/6/1687.long
“ROLE OF FOMITES IN VIRAL DISEASE TRANSMISSION
Fomites consist of both porous and nonporous surfaces or objects that can become contaminated with pathogenic microorganisms and serve as vehicles in transmission (Table 1) (24, 31, 58, 63, 66). During and after illness, viruses are shed in large numbers in body secretions, including blood, feces, urine, saliva, and nasal fluid (10, 33, 34, 39, 48, 58). Fomites become contaminated with virus by direct contact with body secretions or fluids, contact with soiled hands, contact with aerosolized virus (large droplet spread) generated via talking, sneezing, coughing, or vomiting, or contact with airborne virus that settles after disturbance of a contaminated fomite (i.e., shaking a contaminated blanket) (22, 24, 27, 58, 66). Once a fomite is contaminated, the transfer of infectious virus may readily occur between inanimate and animate objects, or vice versa, and between two separate fomites (if brought together) (27, 66). The Pancic study (52) recovered 3 to 1,800 PFU of rhinovirus from fingertips of volunteers who handled contaminated doorknobs or faucets. Using coliphage PRD-1 as a model, Rusin et al. (60) demonstrated that 65% of virus could be transferred to uncontaminated hands and 34% to the mouth. The nature and frequency of contact with contaminated surfaces vary for each person depending on age, personal habits, type of activities, personal mobility, and the level of cleanliness in the surroundings (66). Viral transfer and disease transmission is further complicated by variations in virus survival on surfaces and the release of viruses from fomites upon casual contact (24, 66). Virus survival on fomites is influenced by intrinsic factors which include fomite properties or virus characteristics and extrinsic factors, including environmental temperature, humidity, etc. (Fig. 1) (24, 66). If viruses remain viable on surfaces long enough to come in contact with a host, the virus may only need to be present in small numbers to infect the host (10, 58, 66, 71). After contact with the host is achieved, viruses can gain entry into the host systems through portals of entry or contact with the mouth, nasopharynx, and eyes (10, 24, 58, 66). Host susceptibility to viruses is influenced by previous contact with the virus and the condition of the host immune system at the time of infection (27).”
Term of art alert:
With the idea of fomite infections, we are entering the realm of medical science with concepts like infectious dose 50% (ID50) and lethal dose 50 (LD50). These are relative terms as some populations of people — think retirement home filled with 70(+) year olds — have a different ID50 that a barracks fulls of 20 something soldiers.
This video explains the ID50/LD50 concept well.
ID-50 and LD-50: Microbiology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhX_0o1d6bI
The black out of the issue of Fomite transmission of 2019-nCoV via excreted sweat, mucus, vomit, blood and fecal matter and avoiding mentioning exactly what airborne versus droplet transmission means are “traditional lies” told by CDC Public Health information officers in an epidemic.
At least until they are cornered like rats by infected medical personnel, like they were in the Dallas Ebola outbreak.
Given in the case of the cruise ship Diamond Princess, there was one case boarding the ship in Hong Kong, and there are now 60(+), we are looking at a norovirus-like case of fomite infections rather than classic “RO” person to person infection.
“Fomite infection” is when a person’s excretions — Sweat, mucus, vomit, urine, fecal matter — contain large viral loads of a pathogen with high virulence. People who are immuno-compromised are most at risk from such infection and cruise ships tend to have disproportionate number of retirees who are exceptionally at risk for such infections.
The Diamond Princess first reported 10 infected upon quarantine, then another 10, then another 42. Look at the age spread of the 2nd group of 10 newly infected with 2019-nCoV on the cruise ship in Yokohama harbor per this link:
“The 10 new cases involve four people from Japan, two each from the US and Canada, and one each from New Zealand and Taiwan, the health ministry said, adding that five were in their 70s, four in their 60s and one in their 50s.”
While a few of the people in contact with “Case Zero” got it from being in droplet close contact (less then six feet distance) The majority of that 60-something number likely got it via fomite infection in a public rest room case zero used.
The flush of the toilet on the ship aerosolized the excrement filled water and spread it through out the public rest room.
Every immuno-compromised person on the Diamond Princess who went into that public rest room after that was exposed to the fomite contamination there and developed cases of 2019-nCoV that the current anti-body test could detect.
The upshot of this is avoid public rest rooms if at all possible.
And “Depends may be a friend” when we get the 2019-nCoV pandemic going in the USA.
One of the real problems with the current generation of upper level people in US Federal government (particularly the Center for Disease Control) and Western industry is that they are stuck in 1997-1998; pre-internet mindset where information could be somewhat controlled.
It is 2020 and we are generations into the smartphone era.
The same mindset problem to a much larger degree is playing out in China; albeit much more deadly and lethal with the CCP’s insistence of quarantine in giant open bay “hospitals” which will act as gigantic petri incubators for the Wuhan Flu.
Especially when we have Japanese studies recently released saying that 50% of Wuhan Flu cases are caused by hospital visits.
See:
Half of secondary infections occur during coronavirus incubation period: Japan study
KYODO
FEB 8, 2020
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/08/national/secondary-infections-coronavirus-study/
The CCP is basically using their emergency management playbooks for mass disasters such as Earthquakes or fires, in a pandemic disease situation, and it’s going to kill them.
Returning back to the USA, please carefully note that the preper community at places like AR-15.com are keeping and *sharing* careful notes on when, how often and why the CDC and wider Federal government is lying about 2019-nCoV public health policies.
From one of my e-mail correspondents tuned into that community:
“Later in the presidential task force press conference a reporter asked if the disruption in China was affecting the US medical supply chain, guy #1 said that the reason they were recommending against masks now is so that there would be masks later, then guy #2 tried to cover for him by saying there has been no reports of supply chain disruption “at this time”. Earlier today the WHO said the market rate of some medical supplies have gone up 100 fold and they’re asking manufacturers and retailers to limit or halt mask sales to the public until medical services are stocked up.”
and in another e-mail:
“At one of the Presidential Task Force pressers, they outright came out and admitted that yes, masks do help, but the rationale for saying “masks are ineffective” was to avoid a general run on masks by the general public, in order to protect the mask supply level so that they can be allocated to medical stockpiles for emergency personnel use.
This... is not a bright idea to do in 2020; with Youtube capability; not when people can find it, supercut it and spread it in moments.
People are gonna remember the CDC saying “masks are ineffective” in the lead up to when it finally breaks out here; and notice that the chocolate ration was increased to 80 grammes.
They’re not going to buy CDC’s soon to be lame explanation: “weeeell, the virus is x microns in size, while N95 masks only block 0.3 microns.” to be ‘technically correct’; particularly when within a few seconds of googling, I can find this via “flu virus size micron”
We have never seen a huge collapse of confidence in the America’s public health system before...
...but we will soon given the current senior leadership of the US Public Health system.
You’re comparing hygiene on a U.S. Navel warship to a civilian “Anyone can board” floating apartment building cruise ship?
That’s funny.
“Fomite infection”( virus contaminated surface) is when a person’s excretions —
Sweat, mucus, vomit, urine, fecal matter — contain large viral loads of a pathogen with high virulence.
People who are immuno-compromised are most at risk from such infection
and cruise ships tend to have disproportionate number of retirees who are exceptionally at risk for such infections."
" Given in the case of the cruise ship Diamond Princess, there was
one case boarding the ship in Hong Kong, and there are now 60(+),
we are looking at a norovirus-like case of fomite infections
rather than classic “RO” person to person infection.
"The Diamond Princess first reported 10 infected upon quarantine, then another 10,
then another 42.
The majority of that 60-something number likely got it via fomite infection
in a public rest room case zero used. "(Emphasis mine)
"Every immuno-compromised person on the Diamond Princess who went into that public rest room after that was exposed to the fomite contamination there and developed cases of 2019-nCoV that the current anti-body test could detect.
"The upshot of this is avoid public rest rooms if at all possible." (Emphasis mine)
Due to travel and unreliable internet, ..and a quirky computer,
postings for infectious disease list will only be sporadic.
Spread by secondary contact (formites).
How many of the cleaning crew have it? That is an important indicator.
There are not enough masks, and the first priority goes to medical personal and the elite.
So now wearing a mask in public is considered racist.
Paywall. No thanks.
I would read a lot of books.
One of the regrets of my busy life is that I have not been able to spend as much time reading as I would have liked to have. I would like nothing more than an extended amount of time for just reading.
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