Posted on 06/03/2020 7:48:12 PM PDT by rintintin
cardiopulmonary arrest
“Noun. 1. cardiopulmonary arrest - absence of systole; failure of the ventricles of the heart to contract (usually caused by -—ventricular fibrillation-—) (emphasis added)
For those wondering about Ventricular Fibrillation-
Ventricular fibrillation (VF) is a life-threatening cardiac arrhythmia in which the coordinated contraction of the ventricular myocardium is replaced by high-frequency, disorganized excitation, resulting in failure of the heart to pump blood.
Wouldn't you have to cut off both arteries feeding the brain which are On opposite sides of the neck?
And that's if a knee on the side of your neck will even cut off one of them.
This.
[[Look, I am an anesthesiologist, I am really pretty sure I understand the human airway, and related anatomy — you are incorrect on this issue.]]
Show the evidence that he died from air starvation due to blocked airway resulting from a knee- The evidence in video does not support that- the autopsy does not support that- There are no crushing injuries that would be present if the second cop had compressed his chest so much that his diaphragm couldn’t work as baden claims happened- That would take a huge amount of pressure to do- especially given how large George was, and fact he was lying on stomach-
You seem convinced he died from knee on neck- where’ the evidence? “He Passed out’? That’s the evidence? As you know- there are several perfectly viable reasons why people pass out- including his heart conditions, and drug addled state-
K- can’t take it beyond these facts at this point really- Baden, who again has been wrong on numerous occasions, gave his opinion- the first report and subsequent tox reports don’t agree- - The video doesn’t support the claims made by Baden- Baden hasn’t shown evidence for crushing injuries- You haven’t shown evidence that shows windpipe was blocked, despite the claim you are an anesthesiologist and know human anatomy- Not sure why you brought that up if you aren’t going to provide info that shows his airway was blocked?- You’ve given an opinion- there are several reasons why folks, myself included, find that opinion wrong-
It is a plausible explanation that the airway was blocked. There is not a requirement for crush injuries
The posterior aspect of the trachea is membranous. The tracheal rings are not circumferential except for the cricoid cartilage. The airway Hans be obstructed posteriorly. If you have ever seen dynamic obstruction of tracheomalacia you see the obstruction coming from the posterior (membranous) trachea instead is the anterior. With sufficient pressure form
The posterior the anterior vertebral bodies could impinge the airway without crush injury. The distance between the spinal column and cricoid rings at that level is probably all of 2-3 inches
Cardiopulmonary arrest doesn’t equal heart attack. I am glad you can read Webster’s dictionary.
Let me further educate you. The most common dysrhythmia in hypoxemia is bradycardia to asystole. Usually it takes oh I don’t know about ttheee to five minutes for this to onset. The time frame of the events is absolutely perfect for a disrupted oxygen supply due to occluded trachea. VFib is sudden cardiac death. You have instant syncope. This is not a VF arrest Becuase he would have been unresponsive immediately.
It fits with worsening hypodermic and unresponsive clinically. But unless you are a clinician you wouldn’t understand this.
[[Let me further educate you.]]
[[I am glad you can read Webster’s dictionary.]]
enough with the condescension and petty insults— thanks- You pointed out he died of ‘cardiopulmonary arrest, Not heart attack- Cardiopulmonary arrest leads to Cardiac arrest- You claim it couldn’t have happened because it ‘would have happened immediately- Yet there was george, talking breathing fine, then suddenly not- and becomes unresponsive- which would have been consistent with heart failing due to cardiopulmonary arrest-
See if you can respond without the petty insults- thanks-
“Noun. 1. cardiopulmonary arrest - absence of systole; failure of the ventricles of the heart to contract (usually caused by ventricular fibrillation) with consequent absence of the heart beat leading to oxygen lack and eventually to death. asystole, cardiac arrest. “
[[the time frame of the events is absolutely perfect for a disrupted oxygen supply due to occluded trachea]]
Sorry- but it is also consistent with the other issues brought up several times now- For your scenario to have been ‘absolutely perfect for the time frame’- we would have seen him struggling to say anything at all, and slowly growing weaker, and trying to take breaths in but unable to do so- that’s not what we see o n the video- He was breathing fine, talking, then suddenly becomes unresponsive- more inline with cardiopulmonary arrest- due either to his two seriosu heart issues beign exacerbated by his struggles while in the car, and on ground, and/or due to drug intoxication bringing him to that point of unresponsiveness-
He wouldn’t have been talking fine IF his trachea was obstructed to the point where it couldn’t allow enough air to live- Even though he complained of ‘not being able to breath’ he was talking a steady stream and breathing as the video shows- the video shows his airway was not obstructed- then suddenly he stops talking-
IF his airway was constricted he wouldn’t be talking like he was- there was no sign of his airway being obstructed while he was breathing and talking distinctly- There was no sound of crushed or restricted airway in his voice- There has also been no evience put orward showing damage or injury to the neck to hte point where it could obstruct the airway
You still haven;t provided evidence that his airway was constricted to the point that he died- You simply give your opinion without evidence- The argument i am putting forward has video evidence to back up what I’ saying- You haven’t provided any evidence that the trachea had injury to it- there would be injury if it was so constricted from the side like that that it shut off his airways and caused death- The trachea is not a particularly delicate thing- it takes pressure to collapse it to point where it will cause death-
[[pyou see the obstruction coming from the posterior (membranous) trachea instead is the anterior. With sufficient pressure]]
Yep- with Sufficient pressure- and usually you have to have pressure on the front as well so that the back pressure has something to resist against- otherwise the head will just go forward and you won’t get sufficient/significant enough pressure from back to close off the airway- if you puish agaisnt soemthign, with no resiting force i nthe opposite direction- it will take a tremendous maount of pressure to close off the airway- The other side of his neck wasn’t crushed down against the ground- and he was able to move his head and did so several times- closing of the airway is going to take a lot of pressure- with the other side of neck against the ground as the resisting force- The video doesn’t support the claim that the airway was shut off by the knee- for many reasons- most damning the video and fact he was breathing- then suddenly became unresponsive-
Your using non clinical texts trying to explain a clinical situation. If you don’t want to listen and understand that’s fine. But your assertion that cardiopulmonary arrest leads to cardiac arrest is nonsensical.
What you said is the heart and lungs stop which leads to the heart stopping. Does that make sense? I am explaining to you the intricacies of medicine. If you want to use a dictionary definition and not understand ok
If you want to argue I can’t impart knowledge to you.
Diacetylmorphine is heroin.
i guess you better lend your expertise to Dr Ananya Mandal, MD- who states:
“A cardiac arrest is also called a cardiopulmonary arrest or circulatory arrest and indicates a sudden stop in effective and normal blood circulation due to failure of the heart to pump blood”
https://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Cardiac-Arrest.aspx
And inform the marshfield clinic they got it all wrong too
“Cardiac Arrest – also called Sudden Cardiac Arrest (SCA) or Cardiopulmonary Arrest – is the sudden, unexpected stoppage of normal blood circulation due to ineffective heart action. Either the periodic impulses that trigger the coordinated heart muscle to contract cease or ventricular fibrillation and/or flutter occurs in which the individual muscle fibers have a rapid, irregular twitching.”
https://www.marshfieldclinic.org/specialties/heart-care/cardiac-arrest
[[What you said is the heart and lungs stop which leads to the heart stopping. Does that make sense?]]
What i said was He was high on Fentanyl which can and often does the breathing to cease, which would be constant with what we see i n the video- he was breathing and speaking fine- then all of a sudden he stopped breathing and speaking- This is what happens to heroine addicts who overdose- They have respiratory arrest- This usually happens slowly though with the person still involuntarily trying to take breaths, but can’t- It is also what happens with heart that stops pumping blood to brain and body-
What the video shows is him talking and breathing, then passing out and not responding- in any way- He’s saying while he’s breathing “My stomach hurts, my neck hurts, I can’t breathe, Gimme some water, I’ll get up- I’ll get in the car, etc- and goes on for awhile- it does not sound sound as though his windpipe is constricted while he is speaking- which would lead to him being unable to speak clearly distinctly— He starts passing out but still talking as he’s passing out which likely indicates that the cardiopulmonary event is taking place- His heart very likely isn’t circulating blood and oxygen at this point- He complained just prior to that of ‘everything hurting’- and as you know heart failure can and does cause pain in chest, arms etc- The officer beside the one using the knee, from what i could see from the video from across the street-, was not pressing down heard enough that he could cause the diaphragm to stop or cause pain in the stomach, back, arms etc- yet George is complaining of these pains as well-
George is still moving is head, and speaking while he is passing out- giving further indication that his airway was not restricted- and that he was passing out from another cause-
Again- he had struggled with the officers in the car- He had two serious heart conditions plus blocked arteries- The strain of the fight very well could have started problems with the heart- leading to him feeling as though he couldn’t breathe well- and leading to him passing out as blood flow from the heart slowed-
[[If you want to argue I can’t impart knowledge to you.]]
After you impart your knowledge to the two sources above- we’ll talk-
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.