Posted on 03/03/2021 4:56:47 AM PST by marktwain
So it is to thin the herd? I can get that. But what do the hunters get? Are they paid for the ones they kill?
At what time in pre-history?
Agriculture was developed rather late in the Americas, compared to the rest of the world.
All the tribes were hunter-gatherers about 10,000 years ago.
The tribes changed enormously after European contact. Not only did large numbers die from European diseases, most adopted the horse and as much European technology as they could, as fast as they could.
As for conservation, one of the clear things about conserving resources is you have more to conserve if you get rid of competing predators.
Europeans were almost universally not hunter-gatherers, and they got rid of the competeing predators as fast as they could.
The European immigrants were not stupid, either.
There are no wolf herds. There are wolf packs and they are dangerous to humans and game. Doesn’t sound like you are a hunter.
I am not, which is why I am asking questions about it. If I knew everything (as you undoubtedly do) there would be no need for me to ask questions. I already said I can get it if they feel they need to thin the herds packs. What I don't get is what the hunter's get. Do they get paid by the state for helping to thin the herds packs? Do they take part just because they are helping to make the area safer? Are wolf pelts of value?
All the tribes were hunter-gatherers about 10,000 years ago.
—
That’s an unknown, since the Clovis were wiped out and others were mostly wiped out by the N.A. comet strikes of 10,800 BC - along with all the mega-fauna. Plus, the current tribes have, with the Smithsonian, shut down investigations of remains and prevented investigations of many sites.
“As for conservation, one of the clear things about conserving resources is you have more to conserve if you get rid of competing predators.”
That sounds good, but does not work in practice as the ecosystem is interdependent. Eliminate predators, increase disease levels and starvation of prey.
“Europeans were almost universally not hunter-gatherers, and they got rid of the competing predators as fast as they could.”
Because they were stupid not understanding the dependency between prey and predator. They did an excellent job eliminating the Buffalo, Passenger Pigeon, Timber Wolf, and many others - to show how stupid the actually were.
That is a myth.
Predators do not create a balance in nature.
There is no balance in nature.
They idea there is has long been shown to be false.
One of at least four competing theories, with less evidence that the others, imho.
Where to start? Everyday I drive into one of the finest ranches in West Texas, it’s been in the family for over 120 years. It covers 42 square miles and has many early human campsites from the Clovis period to modern day. There is recorded history all over this ranch of early human activities. You say they did not kill everything that was in competition with them, I say they did, Human nature and the law of survival is on my side for this one. Hell they decorated themselves and their lodges with the claws and teeth of the predators they killed. All tribes or decedents of early tribes were hunter gatherers at one time and this continued in most parts until the 1500’s. When the Spaniards came north it was a game changer and the introduction of horses is what gave the Comanche’s absolute power over the great Plains. They killed, raped, tortured and enslaved their enemies all to create the great Comanchria of the Great Plains and eleminate competition.
I had a full blooded wolf as a pet for 14 yrs of her life. Best dog I ever had. Loyal and very child protective.
Once working in the garden she took off and jumped the front fence. She had never done that before. I ran up there and saw her tearing up a guy who was trying to drag a neighbor girl into his van. She was awarded a T bone for supper.
WOW
Another time there was a family in the shop waiting for me to fix something. The little girls wanted to brush her. The took about a bushel of hair off her. The little redhead, about 5 or so?, was acting up, mom went to swat her rear end. and she got between mom and the kids sideways pushing the kids away from mom glaring at mom. Never growled or acted aggressive just watchful.
I miss her a lot. Her only bad trait was eating the neighbor hood cats. i caught her carrying out one of my cats kittens one time and chewed her out. From then on the cats would sleep on top of her.
I get along better with animals than people.
Amazing. I never had a dog until about two years ago when my son and his dog came to live with us, and watching this mutt’s pack instincts has been so interesting to me. He mostly likes interacting with humans, not usually much interested in other dogs, but I went camping with him and there were about 5 other dogs on the trip. One was a young male German shepherd who would not stop trying to mate with one female lab in particular, and finally our dog just beat the kid up. No blood, but grabbed him by the neck and turned him upside down on the ground. Complete domination. I think he just felt that it was bad for the pack for that one dog to be behaving that way, and so he decided not to put up with it any more.
Actually they were.
People in the city not so much but in the country you did quite a bit of gathering of wild foods. Hunting not so much as the game was the property of the local lord but gathering food from the wild area was allowed.
Same in the US up until recently (last 100 or so years).
I recently watched a video about the Comanche economy and trading networks. Very impressive.
GOOD WOLF!
“Agriculture was developed rather late in the Americas, compared to the rest of the world.”
Not so. Many of the worlds staple food plants were domesticated in the Americas starting as early as 9000ya. It was only slightly earlier in Asia. Agriculture in Europe came by farmers from Asia 8-6000 ya.
In context, I was writing about European immigrants to the Americas.
Most did hunt, and gather, but they got most of their sustenance from farming and animal husbandry.
By hunter-gatherers, I believe it was meant they obtained their sustenance almost entirely by hunting and gathering wild foods.
Bkmrk
Maize was not domesticated until about 4000 BC.
The lack of draft animals to cultivate with hampered the development of American agriculture to a great extent.
Corn is earlier.
“Maize (Zea mays ssp. mays) domestication began in southwestern Mexico ∼9,000 calendar years before present (cal. BP) and humans dispersed this important grain to South America by at least 7,000 cal. BP as a partial domesticate.”
Archaeological Central American maize genomes suggest ancient gene flow from South America (https://www.pnas.org/content/117/52/33124)
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