Posted on 02/02/2023 1:47:45 PM PST by fluorescence
when i see this talking point used I always wonder if it is just a sock puppet going through the bullet points they were given to spam everywhere possible.
Should we try that in New Mexico in a few years? Maybe for 20% of our Southwest?
In all truth this unfortunately goes far beyond what the people in Crimea or parts of Donbass might vote for.
The real motivation for Russia is, or at least was, strategic goals both military and economic. But, in typically Russian fashion they (this goes way beyond just Putin) overestimated their own greatness and underestimated both Ukraine and the West (as we still see so often here on FR)
The West made all sorts of mistakes, the worst being dependency on Russian energy, a belief a real war in Europe was impossible, thinking Russia had fundamentally changed, and weakness in general. For starters.
yep. the Ukraine will sign the agreement like last time then start shelling Donbas again. But this time the Russians will shell back.
Russia should have waited 20 years to attack Ukraine. The West will have dismantled their military by then. So all they will have to do is to walk over and seize the territory by then. Ukrainians will more likely to be indoctrinated by the West so they'll be less likely to fight for their country.
Well, maybe. Russia would have had to overcome its primal instincts and figure out how to quit driving overall public opinion in Ukraine toward growing nationalism and away from disgust and distrust of Russia due to Russia’s activities in Ukraine.
Relatively unhampered and seemingly not threatened by Russia, in 20 years Ukraine would have also likely become a major competitor to Russia’s energy exports, exactly what Russia feared.
Where US politics might swing in 20 years could be very uncertain.
Since I don’t think Russia actually could overcome those instincts (and the behaviors that follow), and since at least some Euro NATO countries actually have been pushing toward their NATO defense commitments the last few years, and NATO has in fact been busy training the Ukies, while I’d not expect serious strengthening of NATO, depending on it to “dismantle” seems a bit optimistic for Russia’s purposes).
And... of course it’s highly unlikely Pooty would still be around in 20 years: While I think he’s only a symptom of Russia’s overall system and direction, the “when” of a move IS considerably dependent on him while he’s in power, and IMO he wants mention of significance in history as a Russian “hero”. “The restorer of the Motherland” and all that...
My own projection of an optimum course for Russia would be to interfere in the 2026 elections to ensure Bidet gets re-elected. Adopt a temporarily conciliatory position regarding Ukraine, but negotiate-delay-negotiate-delay any real retrenchment, get the claws fully into Europe’s energy supply and undercut competition. Strike in early 2029 or early 2030.
But, that’s just my guess.
...Because both Bush and Georgia saw Georgia's admittance to NATO as the best deterrence against the Russian aggression clearly brewing.
Russia initiated most of the Donbass conflict in the 1st place. Read Igor Girkin (Russkie uber-nationalist and a if not the leading FSB operative in the region at the time.)
USA is the #1 source of military aid to Ukraine, but the EU + EU countries individually + Canada (”Strategic EU Partner”, officially) are the largest contributor of overall aid (economic + humanitarian + military) to Ukraine.
The military aid IS the biggest stick, but, the Ukies know that at this point, their defeat or even a negotiated settlement that leaves Russia with significant gains and a for sure simmering insurgency brings down Biden in the next election. (What, someone thinks conservative isolationists will vote for Biden if he does their bidding on this one? While MOST Americans will perceive that Russia “got away with it” due to Biden’s repeated weakness - no doubt screamed to the heavens by any likely Biden opponent including Trump, even as Trump calls for negotiations now.)
Trump, BTW, seems to partially understand the long term ramification(s) of a negotiated settlement: The USA will have to arm to the teeth, which is EXACTLY what he is strongly calling for. “Iron Dome” America — with a population density 9% of Israel’s...? Holy sh—....
Nonsense.
Comedian wins landslide victory in Ukrainian presidential election
Volodymyr Zelenskiy, an actor and comedian with no political experience other than playing the role of president in a TV series, has won a landslide victory in Ukraine’s presidential election, with near-complete counting showing he has won over 70% of the vote.
The incumbent, Petro Poroshenko conceded defeat on Sunday evening before results started coming in.
According to official results released on Monday morning, with 85% of the vote counted, 41-year-old Zelenskiy had won 73.4% of the vote, compared to Poroshenko’s 24.4%.
“I’m leaving office, but I want to make it clear that I’m not leaving politics,” said Poroshenko, acknowledging his failure to win a second term. “I will accept the will of the Ukrainian people,” he wrote on Twitter.
True, but Biden and the CIA are calling the shots and Zelensky is a puppet.
“Yeah...actually they do. We pay for their military, we fund their entire economy and government salary, their civil operations budget, etc etc.”
No true. Our contributions may help their defensive efforts alot, an awful lot, but it does not amount to all you say it does.
“Interesting observation that proves the US State Department really thinks they own Ukraine.”
The idea/offer - that Russia and Ukraine rejected - came out of the CIA.
“The US has borrowed over $100 billion to fight this proxy war.”
Proxy war on Ukraine’s behalf is a slander and a lie. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine was an exapansion of the PROXY WAR Putin started in Eastern Ukraine years earlier. THAT PROXY WAR was intended to soften (sap) Ukraine, militarily and institutionally and prepare the field for the full invasion, whenever Putin thought he could get away with it. It was an unprovoked invasion, period.
Ukraine’s Zelensky vows to hasten EU membership after Kyiv summit
I agree this is an incorrect statement that completely mischaracterizes the current situation. This is a money laundering operation not a proxy war. Basically, none of the money has been accounted for. It is very likely that less than half of the $100 billion sent to the Biden's stooges in Ukraine has actually been spent on war materials and supporting the people who are actually setting off the fireworks. The rest is being distributed among Biden and his cronies. Why do you think that every single Democrat holding office in the Federal government is all in on this massive scam?
Of course the ones profiting the most from all of this are actually the Russians. They got an extra $100 billion from their energy exports alone in 2022 compared to 2021 for less output. Incredible! And those funds went into Putin and his cronies' pockets. They are willing partners in this charade and they are likely to end up with half of Ukraine to boot. Yes, the Democrats running this show really know what they are doing! And those who repeat the endless nonsense being spewed by our media shills about all of this show their ignorance on a daily basis.
The many presumptions that results of events were intended results, by any side, denies credibility but handily feeds many conspiracy theories. The greater reality is more likely ineptitude all around - which in so many ways all sides have demonstrated.
“True, but Biden and the CIA are calling the shots and Zelensky is a puppet.”
You guys crack me up. You are habitually saying Biden doesn’t even know what day it is, and just spends his days watching old re-runs of “Hazel” on an old black-and-white TV; yet, at the same time you say he is some kind of geo-political mastermind calling the shots for other nations. The two are mutually exclusive.
However, I do agree with you guys on the former: That Biden is a clueless idiot with no functional synapses.
When I say Biden, I mean Biden’s handlers.
“When I say Biden, I mean Biden’s handlers.”
So, Biden is out of the loop, and only his handlers are calling the shots? That very well may be. Perhaps you should have made that clear at the beginning.
This is just one program, yes we are supporting their entire society. Their economy is utterly dead at the moment.
The United States, through the U.S. Agency for International
Development (USAID) in coordination with the U.S. Department of the Treasury, is providing an additional $4.5 billion in direct budgetary support to the Government of Ukraine to help alleviate the acute budget deficit caused by Putin’s brutal war of aggression. The Government of Ukraine will receive the funding in tranches, beginning with a $3 billion disbursement in August. This contribution was made possible with generous bipartisan support from Congress.
These funds provided by the United States, through the World Bank, allow the Government of Ukraine to maintain essential functions to its people, including social and financial assistance to Ukrainians further pushed into poverty since the start of the war, children with disabilities, and internally displaced persons.
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