Going Overboard on Open Source

ZDNet ^ | 26 August 2002 | John Carroll

[discostu]

That happens. When was the last time you reached for a facial tissue as opposed to a Kleenix? Cotton ear swap vs. Q-Tip? Bandage or Band-Aid?

Of course, sometimes companies win that battle and lose it later. I remember a time when you got Xeroxes, now people get copies. I also remember people complaining because the IBM was down (even though the cash register clearly said NCR on the side).

There's a reason why the marketing dweebs spend so much time and energy on branding, it really is a major profit driver.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

...there's nothing stopping the user from uninstalling Windows.

Except that new computer users don't know how to uninstall Windows and install another operating system, which is exactly they way Microsoft wants them to stay. If new computer users had a chance to save a hundred bucks by having Linux installed on their new computers, some of them might choose to do so, which is exactly what Microsoft fears.

How is the weather in Redmond today? Have you wiped the brown off your nose from your last visit to Bill's office?>

[Dominic Harr]

What part of "Either you install our OS exclusively or not at all" doesn't sound like a threat?

From Dictionary.com

tr.v.forced, forc·ing, forc·es

1. To compel through pressure or necessity: I forced myself to practice daily.
2. To gain by the use of force or coercion: force a confession.

It is illegal and unethical to use force and/or coercion to secure a business contract. Seems pretty clear on the face of it . . .

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Actually I was discussing the price of the OS. Windows Server costs more than Windows Desktop, by a lot.

And it sucks as a server, too. That's why MS is clinging desperately to the desktop market. They know their days are numbered.

[Dominic Harr]

What part of "Either you install our OS exclusively or not at all" doesn't sound like a threat?

And to complete the point:

threat Pronunciation Key (thrt) n.

1. An expression of an intention to inflict pain, injury, evil, or punishment.
2. An indication of impending danger or harm. One that is regarded as a possible danger; a menace.

Yep, that above sounds like a direct threat to me. Kinda hard to imagine someone not paid to spin saying otherwise.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

And you should format your drive and install Slackware. But that's another story

Dude, I have done way to much tweaking to do anything like that on the aforementioned FreeRepublic surfing, ahem, work system.

I have been thinking about trying out gnu-step, just to re-live the glory days of the NeXT. I wonder if it would get along with slackware...

[demlosers]

Bioforce1 may be a newbie, but he's put his finger on the real issue, which is that Microsoft has succeded in cementing the perception that "Using a Computer" = "Using Windows".

All this talk of Linux, open source, and all the other stuff fails to deal with this one "simple" fact.

Linux could put a big dent in the Windows based PC market if it were easy to use for the non-techie and still keep the sophisticated and technical stuff for the Penguins. But I doubt I'm telling you something you haven't heard before.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

Still sounds like terms of agreement to me...

[discostu]

Ah now the ever popular "they're too dumb" defense. Do you really think people too freaking stupid to make a boot floppy and format the c-drive have any prayer to be able to actually configure and maintain a Linux box? It's not the most idiot friendly system out there.

And finally the "you work for MS" attack. Sorry wrong AGAIN (gee doesn't look like you've been right about ANYTHING in this thread, you should give up). Don't work for MS, haven't ever worked for MS, and given my opinion of white sh!t (more commonly known as snow) I never will work for MS.

Now, you gonna try this again without the moronic accusations and stupid insults, or shall we just call this conversation over? Because frankly I've had enough of your insults and will be hitting the abuse button next time if you can't keep a civil tone.

[discostu]

Ahh yes. Their days are numbered. I think Bill Gates actually does have a dollar for every time somebody said his company was about to be crushed and turned out to be sadly mistaken. First time I heard their days were numbered was in the 80s... must be a mighty big number.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Do you really think people too freaking stupid to make a boot floppy and format the c- drive have any prayer to be able to actually configure and maintain a Linux box?

They don't have to configure anything. Mandrake installs more easily than Windows 2000, and finds more hardware. Windows XP is spyware, phoning home to Redmond every few seconds to tell them what you are up to.

[discostu]

If you say so. Last 10 times I've done a W2K install (in QA you clean install OSes a lot) I just kept hitting next, only things I had to configure by hand were my time zone, my name and my companies name, found all the hardware too. As for XP phoning home, sure must annoy my home machine that it's hardly ever connected to the internet.

So... wrong on both counts, try again.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

And finally the "you work for MS" attack.

Its amazing how much these people hate Microsoft. Its just a computer company for G-d's sake, and ultimately computers are no more worthwhile than a car or an oven, maybe less so.

[discostu]

The funny part to me is that I used to hate MS, and I still bitch about MS. But I've got this problem, I insist that my complaints be factually correct and based on even handed examination. So I'll hit MS for having an OS that's crash happy, but I won't hit MS for having the only OS that crashes because that's BS. Hanging in the tech threads has pushed me FAR in the other direction because I'm finally seeing just how fanatical and bizaare the MS-bashers are. Nobody deserves the kind of unreasoning hatred these guys spew forth.

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

MS almost never crashes on me, but then all I use it for is IE (which is far superior to any Linux-based browser I've used), the occasional Word document, and telneting into any of various SunOS, AIX, Linux development environments that I use.

My boss has got this anti-MS attitude that really bugs me. He continues to swear by Apple....

[discostu]

Since 2K it works like a champ for me too. And I play 3D shooters at home, serious resource bashing. Now back in the old days... I had a 3.11 system on my test bed so hosed it would blue screen running sysedit. I think a lot of people formed their opinion of MS back then. Of course at the same time I was doing that my wife had to work on a System7 Mac which would crash whenever she filled up the keyboard buffer (which she did a lot because she's a good typist and System7 was a hog). When you compare that era of Windows and Mac it's funny how the Mac people insisted the Windows users had to put up with the "bad" OS and "frequent crashing".

[Grit]

It is illegal and unethical to use force and/or coercion to secure a business contract.

I don't have much time to play today fellas, but here goes:

Would it be illegal/unethical for MS to simply not sell to Dell? The only thing MS threatened anyone with is the possibility of not obtaining their (in your estimation - inferior) product.

[TechJunkYard]

Ping as a clarification of what OS "should" be....

I kinda like this one.

OSS developers take their own work and permit others to use it for free. This is a wholly generous act, fully in keeping with the American ideals of volunteerism and service to one's community.

[TheEngineer]

However, it should be a requirement that the data format used for government documents be openly and fully documented. This would allow the data files to be accessed by other software.

This is a GREAT point!

Proprietary file formats, programming languages, etc. really does not serve the customer. But most customers are not tech-savvy enough to know this. The Federal and State governments would be better served if their software and computer contracts were drawn up by people who know the "tricks" of the trade... especially MS's tricks.

As much as I don't like to see OSS resorting to MS-like tactics, it is interesting to see them get a taste of their own medicine. Also, California is only 1 of 50 states (albeit a large one). And the voters get to decide, also. When the government makes a software contract decision with no input from the people, is that "choice"?

[jammer]

Microsoft has the best database technology, the only real GUI development technology...

A lot of points you make may be correct (except that Office is not an OS), but you live in a dreamworld if you believe either of those statements. Geesh.