Going Overboard on Open Source

ZDNet ^ | 26 August 2002 | John Carroll

[jammer]

I see your point about voluntary contracts; however, one element of a valid contract is that it is not made under duress, for example, holding a gun to someone's head. Their point about Dell, and with which I agree, is that that contract was made under duress.

[jammer]

Nope, he's not wrong. I just did my first install of Mandrake two weeks ago and essentially had to do nothing. Many less "Next"s than Win2K.

And the good thing is that now it's installed. The kernel may be recompiled with newer versions (similar to a Windoze "upgrade"), but it's there. With Win2K, one never knows. I have had to reinstall before.

[discostu]

What's the duress? Can't sell MS stuff!? I don't see Apple selling MS products. It's funny all the MS-bashers are so happy that WalMart is bundling Lindows, and yet it's a terrible threat to Dell to not be allowed to sell MS stuff. I think about what a coupe it would be if Dell was bundling everything BUT MS. IMHO the fact that Dell is still bundling non-MS on the more individually profitable server side shows that MS didn't hold all the cards in this.

[discostu]

Oops, there you show you're true colors. Only MS-bashers use "windoze" (which, BTW, is really freaking STUPID; wasn't funny 8 years ago when I first saw it, and now it's not only not funny, it's almost as original as "where's the beef").

Like the next button is so hard to push. Sorry, Windows upgrades and recompiling the kernel are leagues apart, especially in the perception of the normal user. Recompile the kernel sounds really scary to normal people, double click setup and follow the on screen instructions sound safe they do it all the time. I've kept multiple W2K fully up to date and had no issues. Solid OS.

[PatrioticAmerican]

"When the government makes a software contract decision with no input from the people, is that "choice"? "

You're kidding, right? The government buys trillions in bollars of things without your input, but, because they buy Microsoft products, that should be a bad thing?

[steve-b]

I have a very big problem with groups that try to force governments to favor open source software exclusively.

However, governments should certainly be required to use open file and document formats exclusively, in order to insure equal access to public documents and to prevent a vendor from effectively holding public records hostage in exchange for a guarantee of future contracts.

Software (of whatever type) used in government should, at most, be capable of reading proprietary formats, but should in all cases save to open formats.

[rdb3]

Who needs vi anyway unless you're hardcore, behind the scenes. Not that it's that tough to pick up, but, dude, why?

I need vi because I am hardcore AND behind the scenes!

Why? Because I'm young but old-school. Besides, I don't need a GUI. Try browsing FR with lynx. ;-)

[TheEngineer]

Look, every time I've traveled to Kalifornia, I always thought that it was filled with a bunch of fruitcakes; so it doesn't surprise me a bit that they are leading the charge on this one. Yes, this idea of forcing the state to go exclusively with OSS seems to me like voter micromanagement. But it is certainly their right to do this. If the state computers become a big kluster****, then it is California's problem. They can add it to their energy problem and their water problem and their Los Angeles pollution problem.

In my post, I didn't advocate what they are doing. But I did find it rather amusing that California voters are being heavy-handed against the Mother-of-all-heavy-hands. If the bill passes, it will be interesting to watch the results.

[jammer]

Gotta reply to two at once. Yep, you're right about the windoze thing. But, if it wasn't funny 8 years ago, you have no sense of humor.

You brought up the next button, not me. I was just saying that it's not so hard to install and set up Linux by comparing it to Windows.

And I wasn't talking about Windows upgrades. I was talking about Fdisking and reinstalling Windows. Yes, even 2K--which on two occasions on two different machines have lost the passwords of all users and the administrator. And yes, I use it properly--I never work under administrator. Sure, it's the most stable yet. So what? Reinstalls happen for power users.

Man, you're touchy. I told you what the argument with duress was. I think the duress is not enough to invalidate the contract, but that was the argument. I also think forcing an all-or-none solution is great short-term selling but damned poor in the long run--just as Borland, Ashton Tate, WordPerfect, and Apple committed suicide with stupidity, I think MS (may I use that abbreviation?) is generating MS bashers--for good reason.

Now, your ad hominem about my being a MS basher is wrong. Hell, I've never sold a system on Linux. I only began looking at it seriously 2 weeks ago. I DO make a darned good living selling products on the Windows platform. So, don't call everyone who disagrees with you (which I did not, I just said that this was what people were saying) a basher. That's over the top.

[PatrioticAmerican]

While they are being heavy-handed with MS, they are also allowing Davis to cuddle with Oracle. Go figure.

[PatrioticAmerican]

P.S. Colorado has done the same thing with Oracle, and we have Bill "Gun Control" Owens (R).

[eno_]

What you say is true. There is a lot of rabid anti-Microsoft feeling out there. But it is also true that Bush2000 and discostu only show up to support Microsoft, Palldium, and the RIAA and MPOA. They are shills, and shilling brings out a strong response on FR becuase it is an abuse of the forum.

Microsoft has a history of inept "astroturf" campaigns. These two are probably part of such an effort.

[Wonder Warthog]

"You're kidding, right? The government buys trillions in bollars of things without your input, but, because they buy Microsoft products, that should be a bad thing?"

No--not because they are Microsoft products, but because government rules (local, state, and federal) ALREADY require the use of the least-cost solution (low-bidder), which Microsoft is NOT.

Also, the feds have ALREADY done something similar with their "POSIX" requirements. No reason at all to require internal use of software that "plays well with others" (i.e. uses common standards for file formats, etc.).

[E. Pluribus Unum]

You are obviously the one obsessed with Microsoft. By all means use their products exclusively. You have every right.

And as for .NET being so wonderful....

BWAAAAA-HAAAAA-HAAAAA!!!!

Another kluged-together monstrosity with just as many security holes and instabilities as all MS products. The sole purpose of .NET is to allow Bill Gates to be the gateway for all e-commerce, and it ain't gonna happen.

.NET will be Microsoft's Waterloo.

[discostu]

I have a fantastic sense of humor, but "windoze" isn't funny.

How the hell did you manage to hose the passwords? Sounds like bad harddrives to me. I beat the crap out of my non-corporate machines, only reason I have to reinstall is that for install testing (of our software) we must have a clean machine.

I don't think it's duress. And I think the very existence of Apple proves it. If a hardware company can't survive without MS then Apple should be dead. They're not, thus it's not duress.

Hey you're the one that says "windoze", that's the signature file of MS (or should I say M$) bashers. You don't wanna be lumped in with them don't use their symbols, like how I stopped wearing ankhs when the Goths stole it.

I think MS bashers just hate who's on top. The large number of them that are huge Apple proponents (a company that until recently made OSes that make even the worst version of Windows look bullet proof, and who's corporate goal was to be a two fold monopoly in hardware and the OS) shows that for many it's not the what or the how but the who; they're just anti-MS.

[discostu]

I never said anything about .Net one way or the other. PFA man.

As for MS's Waterloo... only time will tell. I gave up predicting MS's demise when the grand and wonderful WordPerfect AMIPro union produced WordPro (I was a BIG fan of AMIPro), the giant killer turned out to be a giant POS (how they managed to take the worst aspects of both word processors and leave all the remotely good parts on the cutting room floor I'll never figure out). At that point I got tired of MS's competition proving me wrong (really if you scope out the history most of the deaths attributed to MS are the result of horrid decisions by the other company, Netscape 6 anyone... BTW I'm writing this in Netscape 6.2, I stayed on 4.x until they finally made 6 not suck rocks, I hate IE), so I stopped predicting their demise. At this point I just point and laugh, the list of things that were going to kill MS is longer than a mobsters wrapsheet and nobody has even dinged their market share in any significant area.

I suppose if you predict MS's demise often enough you'll be right eventually, everything dies eventually. Not me, I walked away from the prediction game 0-5 and having learned my lesson.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

I suppose if you predict MS's demise often enough you'll be right eventually,...

I only spew propaganda like that when somebody spews propaganda like ".NET is going to blow everything else away."

[discostu]

I never said anything about .Net, you got the wrong guy. Like I said man, PFA.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

UPT

[jammer]

Maybe they are envious or whatever. But, honestly, windoze is used so commonly that I don't even think of it any more. Certainly don't use it to be cute or "kewl". Look, I know what you are saying about bashers being unreasonable--just as Bush2000 is sometimes. The problem with this entire situation is that the bashers sometimes make good points and the defenders sometimes make good points. But like damned near every issue on this forum, no one reads the posts, except to determine the position of the writer and then either move on (if they agree) or attack. And less and less are the replies of any value.