FORGIVE ME [DESPERATE PLEA FROM A VERY RATTLED TERRORIST]

Salem Voice, Baseelia, Devalokam, INDIA ^ | 19 SEP 2002 INDIA TIME | Hussain Alrafeeqi

[TomSmedley]

I suspect it will occur within the next 5-15 years. .

In 1970, back before my brain came on line, I bought into this whole apocalyptic notion. Taking it literally to heart literally cost me five years of my life, heartbreak, and a severe delay in getting with God's program for my life. I'm still not caught up, 30 years later.

People have reasons for preferring escapism. However, embracing this perspective will cripple you intellectually and vocationally. God deserves a better return from His investment in your life.

[Quix]

Your assertion that it's impossible or NOT going to happen in the next 10 years assumes as much, presumes as much as the assertion of the one you are assailing for setting something within the 10 years. Both assertions presume more or less the same sort of lofty knowledge.

[Quix]

Have been a student of prophecy since Jr High days.

Sure, I've wasted time on it as I have on other hobbies. But I've also seen the inexorable march of history increasingly confirm soooooooooooo many threads, themes etc.

But you are right--we must have higher priorities in their rightful place and not be distracted, discomfitted, discomboooobalated, caught sitting in corners sucking our thumbs etc. by such events and possibilities.

Nevertheless, God's Word does exhort us to be aware of such, even to plan wisely and certainly to make hay while the sun shines in terms of encouraging people to have a full Salvation relationship with The Living God who died for them.

It IS possible to have a passion for God moving in end times as HE DECLARED HE WOULD and has obviously begun to do--AND TO HAVE THAT PASSION IN BALANCE WITH GOD'S OTHER PRIORITIES FOR OUR INDIVIDUAL LIVES.

Virtually anything can be an obsessive, dysfunctional addiction.

[dubyagee]

Virtually anything can be an obsessive, dysfunctional addiction.

How true. I find lately that I've given more time to politics than my Bible. Too much of anything is not a good thing. 8 * )

[CJ Wolf]

I'd love to hear more about this man.

[Steve0113]

Virtually anything can be an obsessive, dysfunctional addiction.

Even FReeping.

[Quix]

saaaaaayyyyyyyyy WHUT??????

As they used to say in mah granpappy's church . . .

U STOPPED PREACHIN AND GONE TUH MEDDLIN.

[just kidding].

Certainly true.

But you can turn it into a retired/sabbatical avocation! At least for now, I can. And being a university professor always afforded adequate time as well.

[genefromjersey]

As a matter of fact, I believe some of the folks out there are really anxious to experience Armageddon, and willing to do whatever it takes to move things along.

I call such people "Armageddonites".

There also seem to be some Israelis who are spoiling for another Mid-East war. They remind me of the Zealots the Roman historian Josephus was so impressed with ; and that's what I call the modern day version.

[Quix]

Yes, you are right.

There are some who seem bent to move things along in that direction. Some, sadly, as though it were another Terminator movie to get thrilled over. The Bible speaks sternly to those who itch for such calamities.

I don't, however, classify most Israeli's as in such a category. They just know from simple logic and living so close to so many enemies--that if you wait until the enemy can obliterate you--he probably will--especially the Jihad variety. . . though thankfully, our Almighty Father will not allow that.

[Quix]

And, there are those of us who are eager to graduate home--either thru death or being lifted out--however suits The Father and The Kingdom best.

And, when we see supernatural or Biblically predicted things occur at increased frequency, drama and supernatural-ness--it does excite us. Seeing our Lord in a more vivid and tangible way is worth getting excited over.

That doesn't mean we delight in death by any means--i.e. the death of others, particularly noncombatants.

[TomSmedley]

Your assertion that it's impossible or NOT going to happen in the next 10 years assumes as much, presumes as much as the assertion of the one you are assailing for setting something within the 10 years.

My "yardstick" is I Cor. 15:25. My King rules today, and subdues His enemies one by one. This process will continue til the end, when the last foe standing, alone, is death. Then (not before) comes the end (resurrection, final judgement, eternity).

Since this can't happen until all enemies have been subdued, and since there are still too many butts out there that still need kicking, we have our work cut out for us for a long time to come!

[Quix]

It certainly could stretch out longer than I suspect it will. Was it Billy Graham who at one time thought Christ would return before 1975?

Nevertheless, God CAN do a very fast work when He wants to.

I've had the opinion that the reason only The Father knows the day/hour is because it affords Him wiggle room He wouldn't have even if He "only" told the rest of the God-head. Just a conjecture, of course.

[TomSmedley]

It certainly could stretch out longer than I suspect it will.

Coincidentally, (?) my vocational life gained traction as soon as I ditched the failed paradigm, and became pursuaded of the post-millenial position. The best book on the topic for beginners: David Chilton's Paradise Restored. You can download it, free, at http://www.freebooks.com

This is the sanest, happiest, and healthiest exegesis of Revelations I've ever read. It will do your heart good to read it, and enter into the victory of our Lord. Much more fun than fortune telling!

[Quix]

I personally don't think God has given us more than mysterious hints about the sequence, and certainly about the timing.

I think that's Him being a good general and avoiding cluing satan in.

I SUSPECT that as things get closer and closer to major bench marks, He will reveal more and more to His Body. But it has been historically very hazardous in my life to get toooo far out ahead of God even in my emotionally energized speculations.

I guess I assume most people are not a LOT better off in their understanding of the future than I am [at least not several orders of magnitude better than my understanding--though certainly many CLAIM all manner of accuracy. I haven't observed it yet. I think we are all still looking very dimly in the glass. Or looking in the very dim glass together.

Personally, I don't want to know toooo much detail about the future--sometimes even the near future. It's challenging enough often to keep myself alert enough for today's pitfalls and black holes.

[Quix]

Will try to get around to checking it out. Thanks.

[Jeff Chandler]

I require a certain amount of credible sourcing before I believe something somebody sends me in an E-mail, or something I read on the Internet, or even something I see, hear, or read in the mainstream media. I also refrain from sharing such information unless I am reasonable certain of its veracity.

To imply that the eternal disposition of my immortal soul is at risk because I hesitate to believe your dubious tale of divine sightings is to engage in lunacy.

[Jeff Chandler]

reasonable = reasonably

[Quix]

GOODNESS How did I imply that. Let me check.

FIRST OFF, I certainly applaud checking sources etc. I may not have as rigid, exhaustive etc. a source checker as you but I do apply SOME criteria that have worked for me most of the time for a number of years.

Do you have any rational criteria for sorting out the signal from the noise?

This is a simple honest question. I read a lot of folk who say things of the same ilk as you do and they often seem to be rather thoughtless about half the equation. I see error lurking on both sides. They seem to think it's possible for error to lurk on only one side--always the other person's perspective. That seems unthoughtful if not grossly ignorant.

i.e. what is your criteria for declaring something significantly unsual true vs myth?

Another honest question. I'm interested in exploring that geography--that psychological process and psychological geography--especially with someone of your perspective. My guess is that you have a very, very high bar for something unusual to be accepted as fact or truth for you. I'm curious how hight the bar is and what it's made of. Are parts of it more reasonable than other parts. Where are the blind spots and biases in relationship to the bar. What part do they play etc. It's simply a fascinating part of the human drama to me.

What evidence do you have that it is inherently better for you to say somethings not true when it actually is true vs to say something is true when it's not?

Ditto. An honest question I'm keenly interested in an honest answer to.

Does it matter to you whether you tend to err more on one side or the other when the stakes are higher?

I'm really curious if it matters to you or not and why or why not.

And what about when the stakes are eternal?

Again, an honest question. Do you change your criteria or the thought process and/or do the emotions etc. change at all when the issues/stakes involve eternal issues? It's a philosophical as well as psychological question. I'm really interested in the answer.

I don't really have any clear idea--and certainly not for sure--which side of what eternal issues you are on. It's just that your response triggered this subroutine and I thought it a great chance to ask some of these questions.

A lot of people who seem hostile to supernatural stuff--especially supernatural stuff purporting to be part of Christianity; i.e. from God, Jesus, The Christ--a lot of people who seem hostile to such supernatural stuff seem to give reflexive knee jerk reactions of slapping it down without much thoughtful analysis or careful consideration. THAT is an interesting phenomenon to me. It is a curious thing to me.

Some such people will eagerly seek out a psychic to help track down a lost child--clearly laying aside whatever criteria they SEEMED to be applying to supernatural Christian phenomena. That's curious to me. I'd very much like to know what contributes to such differences.

Or maybe they will quickly get on some group or party band wagon having "fun" with tarot or crystals or a list of other charlatan/quasi other worldly stuff--while still being extremely dismissive and hostile that there could be the least shred of validity to Christian related supernatural stuff.

I don't know you well enough and haven't spent much time at all even conjecturing or even "intuiting" where you are in terms of eternal issues. I just took your message as a spring board into this other whole area of pondering. You seemed like a good person to help me satisfy some of my curiosities.

Of course you are quite welcome to label me looney if you wish. You'd have lots of company.

[patriciaruth]

one way or another have made an eternal decision

It is my understanding that when Christ comes in his glory that everyone will have a last chance to make an eternal decision to accept or reject Him. The Jews, for instance, may be able to accept Him as late as that as their Messiah. Like the thief on the cross next to Jesus who made a last minute decision when he was face to face with Christ.

Have I remembered this incorrectly that there will be a last minute face to face chance to accept the Lord and ask for forgiveness?

[Quix]

I don't know what last minute whatevers God may allow or even have scheduled. He certainly is merciful.

HOWEVER, I SURE WOULDN'T WANT to risk MY ETERNAL DESTINY RIDING ON A LAST MINUTE ANYTHING!!!

GET YOUR TICKET NOW! Besides, having The Living Christ as Lord of your life is the best way to face each day!