Posted on 11/20/2002 12:21:09 PM PST by ifhult45
And if she was still on CNN she'd probably be trashing Ailes. That's all this really is: a media turf war. Fox News employees are going to bash CNN, and CNN employees are going to bash Fox News. It's all a matter of which side your bread's buttered on.
They were speechless!
CARLSON: Personally, I thought the most interesting part in the book concerned what is now a growing scandal at Fox News, something we'll take up later in the show, thank heaven.[...]
CARLSON: Later, the chief of Fox News does some free consulting for the White House. We'll tell you about it in the most fair and balanced way, of course.
[...]
CARLSON: Also, a new book throws back the curtains to tell you what goes on at the Fox News network when the cameras are off. We'll report. You can decide, as CROSSFIRE continues.
[...]
BEGALA: And then, before he took over the Fox News channel, Roger Ailes was an adviser to right wing Republican politicians. A new book by Bob Woodward says he's still advising at least one right wing Republican, the president. His network says that the cover the president still in a fair and balanced way. We will put that in the CROSSFIRE in just a minute.
[...]
BEGALA: And then, some journalists are saying that Fox News Channel chief Roger Ailes advising the White House is neither fair nor balanced. We'll debate that in a minute.
[...]
CARLSON: Welcome back. In his latest book, reporter Bob Woodward reveals how Roger Ailes, the head of Fox News channel, tried to influence oval office decisions in the days following September 11. The question at hand was when and how to retaliate for the terrorist attacks? Woodward reports that Ailes sent this profoundly back channel message to the White House. Quote, "The American public would tolerate waiting, and would be patient, but only as long as they were convince that Bush was using the harsh measures possible. The support would dissipate if the public did not see Bush acting harshly."
Woodward said the message was passed on by the president's top political adviser Karl Rove. Quoting again from the book quote, "Roger Ailes, former media guru for Bush's father, had a message. Rove told the president. It had to be confidential because Ailes, a flamboyant and irreverent media executive, was currently the head of FOX News," channel " the conservative-leaning televion cable network that enjoying high ratings. In that position, Ailes was not supposed to be giving political advice."
BEGALA: "The Post" ran excerpts from Mr. Woodward's book, in it's Sunday edition. Today, Mr. Ailes put out a written response. He says quote "Bob Woodward's characterization of my memo is incorrect. In the days following 9/11 our country came together in a non-partisan support of the president. During that time I wrote a personal not to a White House staff member as a concerned American expressing my outrage about the attacks on our country. I did not give up my American citizenship to take this job."
In the CROSSFIRE the talk about the line between reporting the story and becoming part of it, Mike Gallagher, a nationally syndicated radio talk show host with the Salem Radio Network from Dallas, and in Chicago, "Chicago Tribune" deputy managing editor, Jim Warren.
CARLSON: Now, Mike Gallagher, before we even get into the meat of this, I want to know what you make of this whiny pompous line "i did not give up my American citizenship to take this job." Isn't that exactly the kind of ludicrous straw man that liberals use to great effect? This idea if you criticize Roger Ailes you're some how trying to take away his citizenship as an American?
MIKE GALLAGHER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, no, I mean that's what is so ludicrous about this controversy, Tucker. I mean, you mean to tell me that because someone is -- I can't believe that we're sitting here at CNN, founded by the mouth of the south, Ted Turner, and we're belly aching about Roger Ailes writing a note to the president of the United States. You don't think Ted Turner with, any of his loony views, ever tried to share an opinion with the White House that he was chummy with? Come on -- Tucker.
CARLSON: Now, Mike, here's the problem. And Without even defending or attempting to defend Ted Turner which I would never do, here is the distinction. Ted Turner is not running CNN. Ted Turner is not in our editorial meetings. Roger Ailes is the editorial chief of FOX News and this gives the appearance of partisanship. This makes it look like Roger Ailes is sucking up to power.
(CROSSTALK)
GALLAGHER: Come on. Rewind then and go back to Bob Woodward's boss during the height of his Water Gate glory days, which he seems to be trying to recreate, by the way. His boss was Catherine Gram (ph), the Washington, D.C. socialite, and friend to many U.S. presidents. You don't think Catherine Gram (ph) ever expressed an opinion to a president that she was buds with? Come on, Tucker. He does have a right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me bring Jim Warren into this. I'm not a friend of Roger Ailes or a fan of the Fox News channel, but that is wrong with a president in crisis receiving information or advice from any American who wants to offer it?
JIM WARREN, DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR CHICAGO TRIBUNE: I think the tip-off right here with Ailes is it that it had to be kept confidential. Why is that? Why would Roger Ailes or Rove be embarrassed by public disclosure of this counsel of Roger Ailes. It is obvious why. As journalists we work a different side of the street than the folks on government side does. Especially when it comes to the temptations that we face, the temptation particularly in Washington to be beguiled by power, the temptations especially when it comes to access -- to gain a little access and get something in return.
Those are the sorts of things that all too many folks in Washington, I think, tend to trip over. I don't know if Mr. Ailes personally and I'll stipulate to the fact he's been an entrepreneurial, if not a genius, a very smart guy, he's got his competitors on the run. But the fact is when it comes to marketing that channel, he markets it guys as a journalistic Switzerland. An island of neutrality and de-liberal Saddam and Gomorrah of you guys at CNN and MSNBC and just really seems ventilate that assertion.
GALLAGHER: It is working because it is true.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Excuse me, Mike. Let me suggest an alternative theory as to why he wants to keep it silent. I'm not a journalist. I don't have a background in journalism, I don't really understand and now all the rules, I know you do, you are a career journalist. But I used to be an adviser to a president and know a lot about advising a president. This is the most, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) stupid advice I've ever seen offered to a president. They killed 3,000 of our people. Did he really think that Bush was going to fold up? Was any American out there saying, gee, Mr. President, don't avenge 3,000 people slaughtered? It's a dumbest thing I've ever seen in my life.
(CROSSTALK)
GALLAGHER: And you guys have a field day jumping up and down with Roger Ailes and Jim sitting there all somber about what journalists do or don't. You see, Jim, the American public gets it. We understand that there has been a liberal agenda foisted upon us by the main street press for all these years. So finally a news channel comes along that doesn't suppress or stifle conservative voices, and you guys can't stand it. You can't figure the formula out.
WARREN: Mike, despite your reluctance to discuss your views on it and being so low profile, let me say this goes beyond ideology. It is not a matter of left or right, it is a matter of making a mistake of becoming an actor in the political process. Here is the problem for the hard working folks at Fox. The grunt producers and other folks. The problem is, say, you know, you send a note and then Roger Ailes gets a call back from Karl Rove, and maybe even the president saying, Roger, thanks so much for that.
You then open the door to that, you know, call somewhere down the line, maybe benign, hey, can you get so and so on your Sunday morning talk show or maybe more significant. The reality is, Mike, and I know this is difficult for you in the radio world, particularly a world where if you go on your web site, mike, there you are personally shilling for various advertisers on your show, the sort of thing that is beyond the pale of big time organizations. You have no problem crossing that bridge.
(CROSSTALK)
GALLAGHER: Some of these advertisers in your -- The same advertisers that are in your newspaper, pal, and the advertisers pay your salary as well, just like they pay mine, and I don't have to pretend to be a objective neutrality when you're a basket liberalism.
(CROSSTALK)
WARREN: I know you're annoyed by the hair care products or other products you tout. But, hold on, you make a really interesting, you make an interesting point, though. You say you don't pretend, that you are what you are and good for you.
(CROSSTALK)
GALLAGHER: And Jim does. And Jim does! Jim pretends he's an objective neutral journalist and he's not.
(CROSSTALK)
WARREN: You're mad about the hair care stuff, I can see. Let me get back to the --
(CROSSTALK)
GALLAGHER: I'm telling you it's mine. There is a spot right there on top. I need some of it.
CARLSON: Here is the problem. Fox is conservative.
GALLAGHER: No, it is not.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Most of the rest of the press is liberal. Fox is an alternative to that. That's clearly the marketing plan and that's clearly the reality.
My question to you is why not admit it? Why be phony about it? This is Tucker Carlson -- Mike.
GALLAGHER: Tucker, just like this great format where you have both sides, that's all Fox does each and every day. You know that. Their prime time show...
CARLSON: Wake up, Mike. Come on, Mike.
BEGALA: They do have both sides -- they have the far right and the kook right.
CARLSON: Mike.
GALLAGHER: I've never -- I've never -- are you kidding me? Have you ever seen it?
CARLSON: Mike.
GALLAGHER: I've never been invited on Fox where I haven't had to debate some liberal weenie over some issue of the day.
(CROSSTALK)
GALLAGHER: They're the ones -- they're guys that hired Geraldo, remember? Geraldo.
CARLSON: It is the Geraldo network, and you make an excellent point, Mike, and I thank you for reminding our viewers it is in fact the Geraldo network.
GALLAGHER: They're winning. Whatever they're doing, it is working.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... me read to you a comment, Tim Warren, from a former reporter for Fox News, someone -- you talked about the grunts who are trying to do a good job there, and I'm sure there are many. One of them is a man named Jed Duvall. He used to be a reporter there.
This is what he told "New York" magazine: "I'll never forget the morning that one producer came up to me and rubbing her hands like Uriah Heep said, 'Let's have something on Whitewater today.' That sort of thing doesn't happen at a professional news organization."
This is a Fox reporter admitting that when he worked there, Fox was not fair and balanced, it was right wing, and there is a bias there.
(CROSSTALK)
GALLAGHER: And of course, there is a story today about CNN...
BEGALA: Excuse me, Mr. Gallagher, let me ask Mr. Warren.
WARREN: Yes, well, I thank Mike for his terribly persuasive allusion to Geraldo Rivera, the most famous graduate of the -- I think, Mick Jagger school of journalism, that is sort of a little bit underwhelming.
Look, whether you're covering the cops' beat in Des Moines or whether you are covering county courthouse in Chicago, the State Department in D.C., you have really got to be careful at this level of sort of keeping a distance from the folks you cover.
There are people like Tucker -- remembering the 2000 race, who were probably pretty critical of a lot of folks, including myself, who got a little bit too cozy with John McCain. Well, I look back and I think a lot of that had to do with the fact, tremendous access, we were beguiled by that, some of us probably did get a little bit too close and get a little bit too sympathetic.
The problem is here in this transaction, Karl Rove says, Thanks so much, Roger, for this, this is terrific. The president is taking this to mind...
GALLAGHER: You said that Jim.
WARREN: ... and then all you need a couple of weeks down the road is some story, Hey, Roger, we hear so and so is working on such and such. Can you maybe just cool that for a day or two? It is that sort of potential self-censorship that can arise...
GALLAGHER: The -- bologna. Bologna.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike.
WARREN: ... from being a little bit too cozy...
GALLAGHER: The problem is...
WARREN: ... something a lot of folks in radio just don't understand. GALLAGHER: The problem is -- or newspaper, obviously, because those who can't write -- let me tell you something, pal. The problem is there is no problem. Nothing -- you guys can't argue with success of the Fox...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those who can't do what?
GALLAGHER: Those who can't write. I mean, you're like consultants. You guys have all the answers, and you determine what a problem is and there is not a problem. The problem is Fox News Channel is trouncing the competition. Why do you think that is, Jim? Why do you think they're doing so well? Because Americans are a bunch of dumb lemmings who aren't smart enough...
CARLSON: Unfortunately -- I'm sorry, guys, before we get into the theoretical aspects of why Geraldo is so appealing to so many people, we are just completely out of time, but I want to thank you both very much for joining us.
Mike, good luck with those products you're selling on the air. Jim Warren, thanks very much. We appreciate it.
WARREN: I thank you very much.
And now the relevant discussions from last night's Crossfire:
BEGALA: Well, in happier news, the meltdown at Fox News continued today. Fox President Roger Ailes actually compared his work for Richard Nixon and George Bush senior to murder. Only a psychiatrist could tell you why. He also attacked two serious credible journalists, Bob Woodward and Tim Russert.Draw your own conclusions.
And then this. Ailes told "The Washington Post's" reliable source column that if Bill Clinton were still president he'd probably have offered him the same advice he offered George W. Bush after September 11. In fact, when Clinton was president, the group Fairness and Accuracy In Media reports that Ailes went on the "Imus In The Morning" radio show and endorsed the theory that Vince Foster's suicide was a murder.
"Now I don't have any evidence," Ailes said. "These people are very good at hiding or destroying evidence." Well, we always knew Fox was unfair. We just had no idea until today they were so truly, deeply unbalanced.
CARLSON: Makes me feel a little better about Ted Turner. Just a tiny bit.[...]
CARLSON: Now a follow-up on a segment we did on this show last night, we reported that Fox News Chief Roger Ailes had been caught by investigative reported Roger Woodward, sending secret political advice to the White House, something of course that actual journalists do not do.
The story has since been confirmed. Ailes does not deny the facts of Woodward's account. But that has not prevented him from attacking the character of the man who broke the story. Ailes' exercise in messenger assassination makes our quote of the day.
As he put it to the "Washington Post," quote, "Woodward got it all screwed up as usual. The reason he's not as rich as Tom Clancy as while he and Clancy both make stuff up, Clancy does his research first."
He is, I must say, among other things, smart, interesting. He is a genuinely mean, mean person.
BEGALA: I like that about him. I like meanness as you know. That's why I love you and Novak.
CARLSON: But why not just admit that you did something wrong, rather than attack the guy who reported it?
BEGALA: Well, I think what he's angry about is the content of the advice -- well, two things -- the content of the advice which was truly moronic. The audience should know this, the content of the advice was "We should attack back after 9/11. Oh, duh.
But second, that he couldn't get to Bush except through Carl Rove. This is a man who worked for Bush's father, who knows Bush for a dozen years or more. He had to go through an aide. That doesn't sound like a guy who's got a lot of juice to me.
CARLSON: How mad is the White House now at Roger Ailes? I mean, they will never take his call again.
BEGALA: In fact so mad, I think George W. Bush is coming on CROSSFIRE tomorrow -- I'm just kidding. No, he's not.
PULL IT!
...
...
...[crickets]...
Did you happen to hear the close of Greta's program last night on Fox News Cable.
It went like this, not verbatim, but from my memory.
Greta says in closing the following:
In regards to the note of support Roger Ailes, my boss, sent to President Bush immediately following the attack on 9/11 and CNN's response to this note,
I used to work for rick kaplan at CNN. It was no secret he was friends with the clinton administration. Rick NEVER EVER told me who to invite onto my show there, what to say, what not to say....and likewise, when I moved on to Fox, Roger Ailes, my boss here, has never EVER told me what to say, who to invite, what not to say or anything....OTHER than....'stay fair and stay balanced.
In closing....I am very ashamed of CNN for this response to a note of support. I say...."SHAME ON YOU, CNN".
I could have jumped thru the screen and hugged her for this honest retort.
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