Posted on 04/10/2003 6:45:19 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
"I might one day have a dream where I jump off a 12-storey building and crack my skull."
The discussion is reality.
The statement is STEP off the ledge, not DREAM off the ledge.
You're making a strawman argument, and arguing in circular logic.
You are saying, in effect, that because the dream is not real, your perception is flawed, and thus you cannot know reality.
THAT is incorrect.
Step out the window Vion.
Check out the side stepping mind trip in post 39.
Wait until he finds out that all of FR is actually one other poster who types fast.
With both hands and feet at the same time.
I like to speak in general, so I'll say this again:
Let's go through this step by step:
1) You believe that our senses are 100% accurate.
2) You believe that "reality" = "our perception of reality"
3) What's your proof? Because it "feels real."
Great logic. It "feels real," that's why it must be real. Isn't that what you've been saying all along? Apparently, you just know something is real because it "feels so real." Yea, those people who say they got kidnapped by aliens also say "it felt so real."
If our senses are 100% accurate, then:
-people are being kidnapped by aliens; world crisis!
-ghosts exist for sure; screw those sketics
-there's no such word as "hallucination"
-there's no such thing as "dreams"
Anyways, I think we are wasting each other's times here. One last question: do you think that "whatever feels real" must be real?
Answer it and I'll leave and we'll stop wasting any more time.
"I like to speak in general, "
And that is the entire problem with your debating point.
It makes your point invalid.
And it makes you appear to be dissembling and dishonest.
Check out post 45 now.
He thinks that speaking in broad general terms and going tangential with his strawman hypotheticals when arguing a point is a virtue.
Please answer the question: do you think that "whatever feels real" must be real?
It'll save time.
Please provide a question.
Besides, I have ALREADY answered that statement.
If you'd pay attention, you'd see that.
I think we need the experts to come hijack this thread.
No, you haven't directly answered it. You've only implied an answer.
Come on, this is easy, a YES/NO question:
Do you think that "whatever feels real" must be real?
Again, just a YES or NO would do. Pretty easy. This'll be my last post. If you can't answer this, then I'll take your implied answer. I'll check back in a few minutes.
Take care man. (btw, I don't know why you say I'm "resurrected" from 2003; I only signed up a month ago)
Yes, we need to truly freak Vion out.
He wants to 'debate' what constitutes reality.. we'll remove his reality and substitute our own in its place.
When I asked you to test out your hypothesis, you refused.
I answered your so called question already bby example.
You decided to go tangential and argue based off strawmen and false assumptions.
You also go off about dreams, which shows your agenda in this debate actually, and no that will not work.
You said that reality cannot be known because our perceptions are flawed, then turned around and tried to claim you never said that.
Yet when told to test your perceptions out with a little trip out a twelfth floor window, you got cowardly about it and started off about dreams again.
How about ACTUALLY stepping off the ledge Vion?
According to you, your perceptions are flawed and it is not reality.
"(btw, I don't know why you say I'm "resurrected" from 2003; I only signed up a month ago)"
Note the date this threrad was initially posted, quoted below:
"Proof
The Autonomist ^ | March 2003 | Reginald Firehammer
Posted on 04/10/2003 9:45:19 PM EDT by Hank Kerchief"
April 10 2003, got that?
Last activity on this thread was on post 16, "posted on 04/12/2003 4:39:54"
April 12 2003, got that as well?
YOUR post 17 showed up here: "17 posted on 07/23/2005 11:43:38 AM EDT by Vion "
THAT is a thread resurrection mein freund.
This thread is OLD, and you are a troll.
You certainly had to look pretty hard to find this thread, and you do know how this place works, which tells me that you have been here before.
Your wide eyed innocence act isn't gonna cut it.
Your ending statement also shows your lack of comprehension.
I said you were a "THREAD resurrecting troll", last I checked, this THREAD isn't about you.
And last I checked, YOU are not a THREAD.
Prove it.
A chicken is just a bird.
Check out post 17 and subsequent posts by Vion..
Jumping out the 12th-floor window wouldn't test any aspect of Vion's proposal though. Besides, even if that is an effective test, nobody's gonna risk their life doing an experiment.
This is one of those things that are hard to test.
And if your perception of reality is not completely accurate (can you prove otherwise?), can you really "prove" anything at all?
This doesn't prevent one from being capable of a lot of things. But even so, I think we understand "reality" by approximation or analogy, rather than reality as it "really is." Our senses are adequate for the former, and inadquate for the latter.
Given that we humans are incapable of knowing everything -- you or I cannot know more than a very little of everything -- it's a mite premature for you to be stomping around claiming ascendency over the universe.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.