Sarah's Choice (more on the Sarah Saga saga)

WSJ ^ | 6/21/2003 | WJS Opinion Jornal

[Roughneck]

It's sad how women in Saudi Arabia are treated. It wasn't like she chose this life for herself....we should do everything to get this woman and her children out!!!


She is of Arab blood. Her father is Saudi. She lives under Saudi law.

Sadly, this is probably her life.

[Roughneck]

Let's step back in time 60 years. The Germans DO have their laws as well. In the Reich, German law trumps our own.

>>>APPLES & ORANGES

I am so sick of hearing about these Saudi robber princes. I can't think of a single reason why we should not dismantle that pirate regime just like we did to Iraq. We should have done it on Sept. 12, 2001.


>>>AGREEED.

[Roughneck]

"The federal government has not handled child custody battles it did get involved in very well..... Jonestown...Waco....Elian... I don't think the Constitution gave the federal government the responsibility of custody disputes."

You are right about the above, though except with Elian, I'm not sure what the other cases have to do with child custody, specifically.

Still, custody disputes on our own soil are a different matter entirely. Here in USA, we only have OUR laws to worry about, in the ME, we must respest theirs as well.

[darkwing104]

How about Sarah being locked up for YEARS in her fathers home? About the beating, the constant verbal abuse and threats to kill her, the forced marriage (she was SOLD), where her "husband" forcibly raped her?

I don't disagree with you about how Saudi men treat their women but we have to be careful about such claims. I'am not calling anyone a liar or wish to start a flame war. Can these alligations can be proved or is this a custody case gone bad? (This is an honest question an not a flame)

[SarahW]

First question: why wouldn't you accept Sarah's own story, based on what you know of Saudi laws giving men absolute power to do whatever they wish with their chattels?

A custody case gone bad? I suppose any case that relies on Saudi's respect for American law or American courts is a custody case gone bad.

Sarah's mother married a Saudi who lived in the US. They married in the U.S. under U.S. laws. Their divorce was a U.S. divorce and legal custody was determined under the laws of the state where they had married and the mother still resided... and it forbade the father from taking the daughter out of the country without permission of the mother.

The mother complied with visitation, as she had on previous occassions, and sent her daughter Sarah to visit her father in Texas. Flouting the custody order, He left the country with Sarah; IIRC it was with a *Saudi* passport for the girl.

The mother at first pleaded with authorities to bring the girl back; she got no help from the state department. The Saudi's did not cooperate either: they will not recognize any rights the mother or daughter had under U.S. law.

The father told the mother not to pursue the matter, as he would slit Sarah's throat before he would let the Sarah return to her in the US. (see also: solomon)
She did not take this as an idle threat.

I can't understand why anyone would not understand that no American woman who is kidnapped by a Saudi flouting American law should not be able to return with any children of any forced union that ocurred as a result of her kidnapping.

[darkwing104]

I can't understand why anyone would not understand that no American woman who is kidnapped by a Saudi flouting American law should not be able to return with any children of any forced union that ocurred as a result of her kidnapping.

Sad to say we cannot enforce our laws on any other country short of war. The U.S. cannot compel the Saudis to do anything without using force. They know that. The best solution I've seen was posted by dennisw "Best case scenario is the incident is allowed to chill out for few months then the 3 American citizens are allowed to leave Saudi Arabia."

[SarahW]

They are in the consulate, on American soil. All three should be on the next plane out of Saudi Arabia. Since they flouted the laws of our country, no special efforts should be made to comply with their barbaric, feudal, sandmonkey system. The are estopped from claim to the children.

No special efforts to cowtow to their wishes should be made.

What shocks me more than anything is the lack of help Saga got when she entered the consulate - and that the state department permitted Saudi's to enter her room their, to intimidate her.

I can not believe that we are cooperating in anyway with laws that violate every principle of the rights of man, when the rights of an American citizen is at stake!!!

[SarahW]

Finally, if they choose to flout our law with regard to custody and parental rights, we should kindly return the favor. Especially since children left there are left to a life of chains and slavery.

[Ready4Freddy]

"All three should be on the next plane out of Saudi Arabia."

It'll have to be a military transport, leaving from a base clear across the country (unless we have an AFB on the western side of the desert, which I doubt). I can't imagine them being allowed to board a commercial plane at Jeddah airport.

"What shocks me more than anything is the lack of help Saga got when she entered the consulate - and that the state department permitted Saudi's to enter her room their, to intimidate her."

I'd sure like to see some independent reporting on the situation. About all we 'know' about it is from WND & Pat Roush, who recently did a book launch w/ WND.

[SarahW]

That's false. Sarah saga has spoken to news agencies herself. I have listened to her talk about her situation.

[darkwing104]

They are in the consulate, on American soil. All three should be on the next plane out of Saudi Arabia. Since they flouted the laws of our country, no special efforts should be made to comply with their barbaric, feudal, sandmonkey system. The are estopped from claim to the children.

Easier said then done. Saudi Arabia is a closed society, the only way to travel there is by invitation. To get out they have to go pass Saudi security and on an Saudi owned/controlled Airline. I have been to Saudi twice, I'am in the Air Force. The place is a Kingdom ruled by men, first thing to remember they don't recognize our laws and, second, they don't care for our laws. They don't acknowlage western marriges and they don't have to.

If we were in a situation where the Suadis demand we do something against our will, just about everyone here would say "hell no" and rightfully so. Saudi is a big sandbox but it is their sandbox. If we start going in a demanding they cowtow to our will they would get offended and say "hell no" also. This is not a situation to start a war over. You can't embarass them over this issue because most of the countries around them have the same beliefs and see no problem with it.

I've read the stories on WND and it sounds like they want to sell books. I tend to agree with Wendy McElroy's article. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,90212,00.html I have been learning more about Sarah as I had asked some question I thought were legitimate.

As for allowing Saudis officials in and forcing her to sign papers I have a ton of questions about what really happened. This is a case where I know we are not getting the whole story.

[Ready4Freddy]

What news show was that on? FOXNews, wasn't it, but what show? Got transcript? Spoke for 2-3 minutes, right?

[JustPiper]

thank you for these additions Relief! Sure could use some relief on this new thread ;)

Mom's Saudi Hell

[Jeff Head]

Amen.

[SarahW]

That's what happened.

They allowed Saudi's not only into the consulate, but the bedroom in which she resided.

They ignore our laws? I say we return the favor.