Posted on 08/09/2003 8:13:24 AM PDT by alternatediscourse
Were you not with me during that quik briefing? Which one of the five were you that I talked with? Evidently you fail to address Serbian concerns that began in 1990/1 when outsiders (Serbian Muslims from Sanjak) were brought in for political positions. Now, are you aware of Sanjak and the tension between the two opposing parties? Have you 'seen the ethnic tension' between the opposing parties? The Sanjak Muslims make the Bosnian Muslims look like choir boys.
Outsders have zero business directing calls for secession from Serbia. But that is fine as long as the Serbs of Bosnia were given that same right of self-determination. You must remember, the number one reason for the bosnian civil war was the right of self-determination. The Serbs were denied the same right after they made their own vote, which I believe was 98%yes to secede away from the "muslim" govt. The Croatians did not want any part of the muslims either, but were given a fat deal to "remain allies" for the short-term.
Show us all Hoplite? Are you up to that task? I doubt it you can find those answers as you will turn it right around. It is not in you to be proved wrong, go on and give those answers and I will answer your questions.
I am curious who supplied that number? How do we know they are accurate? You know, people were coming and going all the time so the "refugee" numbers were always fluctuating/up down/ up down...
The onus is on you to provide the above as aforementioned will lead to my answering your question posed to me.
On January 17, 1996, the British daily "Guardian" published an article concerning one group of the former Muslim POWs from Srebrenica and Zepa, who, once liberated from a POW camp, were flown directly to Dublin:
"Hundreds of Bosnian Muslim prisoners are still being held at 2 secret camps within neighboring Serbia, according to a group of men evacuated by the Red Cross to a Dublin hospital from one camp - at Sljivovica. (...) A group of 24 men was flown to Ireland just before Christmas [1995](...). But some 800 others remain incarcerated in Sljivovica and at another camp near Mitrovo Polje, just three days before the agreed date for the release of all detainees under the Dayton peace agreement on Bosnia(...). The Red Cross in Belgrade has been negotiating for several weeks to have the men released and given sanctuary in third countries. A spokeswoman said most were bound for the United States or Australia, with others due to be sent to Italy, Belgium, Sweden, France and Ireland. (...) Since late August, the Red Cross has made fortnightly visits from its Belgrade field office. (...) Teams from the War Crimes Tribunal at The Hague have been in Dublin to question and take evidence from the men."
In 1996, the pro-government (Muslim) news agency TWRA reported:
"[One] Hundred-three Bosnian soldiers who were recently released from prisons in Serbia, were sent to Australia against their will", claims their commander, Osmo Zimic. Zimic also criticizes the UNHCR, whose spokesman claimed these soldiers demanded departure to Australia and by no means return to Bosnia for they would allegedly face criminal charges as deserters there. "This is not true", says Zimic.
Australian immigration & ethnic affairs office spokesman says he was informed [of] Zimic's allegation from the Bosnian embassy in Canberra and that the investigation was initiated."
"The Bosnian Embassy in Australia requested the Hague International Tribunal (ICTY) to start an investigation on the deportation of Bosniaks (800 persons) from Serbia to Australia and Europe in which, supposedly, UNHCR assisted, instead [of] involving Bosniaks in the exchange of prisoners, esp. for they had been in the camps in Serbia which claimed not to be involved in the war in Bosnia. The principal witness for the prosecution is Osmo Zimic, a Bosnian Army Officer, one who had been deported to Australia against his will."
DECAPITATION AS A MEANS OF GENOCIDE OVER THE SERBS IN THE FORMER BOSNIA AND HERZEGOVINA
The magazine "Novi voks" published in Sarajevo promoted the most extreme Moslem stances and openly called for genocide of the Serbian people.
Thus in its October 1991 issue No.3, on page 40, in a regular feature called "Documents", "Novi voks" published an article entitled "What (is to be done) with the Serbs in the Moslem Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina", which, inter alia, states the following
Quote:
1. Every individual Serb must be aware of the responsibility of the entire nation for his own uncontrolled acts. The punishment for evildoings committed will be collective - for one Moslem house torn down ten Serbian houses will be demolished, for one dead Moslem 100 Serbs will be liquidated. For a wounded Moslem, depending on the severity of the wound - 10 to 50 Serbs.
2. All Serbs will have 12-hour working days, the salaries of all employees will reflect the degree of their loyalty and will as a rule be by 30% below the salaries Moslems occupying the same posts receive.
9. A good Serb is a live and obedient Serb; or a dead disobedient Serb.....
(End quote)
NOTE: The above ratio of retaliation 9one dead Moslem equals 100 (hundred) dead Serbs is exactly the ratio that Nazi occupation force of Serbia, during WWII, had in store for the "rebellious Serbs"...
The front page of the No.3 issue of this magazine which came out half a year before the so-called Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina was proclaimed in April 1992, carried the message "Hanjar division readying" illustrated with a drawing of an armed Moslem soldier beneath whom were the cut off heads of the Serb leaders Karadzic, Koljevic, Milosevic and Seselj with the Moslem soldier trampling Karadzic's head underfoot.
The Hanjar SS division was a military unit composed of Moslems from Bosnia and Herzegovina, which, having previously been specially trained in France and Germany, fought on the side of fascist Germany in World War II and is remembered for the war crimes committed against the Serbian people by its members.
This cover page presaged what would start happening to the Serbs a year afterwards, when civil war broke out in the territory of the former Bosnia and Herzegovina as well.
There ensued a massive genocide of the Serbian people which involved the killing of Serbs by decapitation, as was characteristic of the period of Turkish rule in these lands, when the beheading of Serbs was common practice also. Dr. Ivo Andric, who was born here and is the only Yugoslav Nobel laureate for literature, also describes this in his books.
Following are some examples of this practice of killing Serbs by decapitation:
1. On May 26, 1992 Zvonko Zovko, from Podorasac near Konjic, a member of Croat-Moslem armed formations, chopped off the head of the Serb Sretko Kuljanin from Bradina near Konjic, who was captured in Bradina, took it to Konjic as a trophy, kicked it around the streets and in the end impaled it on a stake.
When Sretko's wife Branka, seven months pregnant, heard of this on May 28, she went into labour. However, the Moslem gynecologist in Konjic, Dr. Jusufbegovic, refused to attend to her although her waters had broken and he returned her to the Musala camp in Konjic where on June 14 1992 she gave birth to a child which, according to the findings of the Mother and Child Care Institute in Belgrade, was born with brain and optical nerve atrophy (in his second year a pronounced retardation in the development of the motor functions was established manifested as incomplete control of the head, inability to sit, stand on his legs and impaired vision with oculogyration and the inability to fixate the source of light). In the view of the physicians of this renowned child care establishment this is the consequence of premature birth and of adverse influences before birth and the prognosis is that the child will remain severely handicapped for life.
Proof:Documentation of the Committee 106/94./1
2. After June 8, 1992, there remained only 13 Serbs, elderly men and women in the village of Ledici, the commune of Trnovo, most of whom met their death at the hands of Moslem-Croat military formations commanded by Ethem Godinjak [a Moslem], Head of the Secretariat of Internal Affairs in Trnovo before the war.
In this way was killed Rade Mijovcic (f. Aleksa), 70 years old. His body was found on August 7 with the head severed from the rest of the body.
The body of Savka Vasic (f. Nikola), a woman 78 years old, who was butchered on her doorstep, was also found without the head.
Members of Godinjak's unit found and arrested the last five remaining Serbs from the village of Ledici on June 18 and 19. They drove them in the direction of Treskavica and killed them on a spot called "Ledicka krivina".
During the in situ inspection carried out after the Serbs liberated this territory the beheaded bodies of all these five Serbs were found: Tankosava Mijovcic (f. Jovica), a woman 70 years old; Ljubica Vasic (f. Djura), a woman 84 years old; Ikonija Vasic (f. Lazar) a 92-year old woman; Zoran Vasic (f. Jovan), 71 years old and Milka Vasic (f. Danilo) a 56-year old woman.
Three of the heads were not found and two heads were found away from the bodies.
Proof: 228/94-30.
3. On October 5, 1992, Moslem armed formations attacked the house of Sreten Djokic [a Serb] in the village of Divovici near Srebrenica, and two days later the bodies of the people killed in Divovici were handed over to the Serbs.
The body of Sreten Djokic was given without the head and the right arm. On the neck hung a patch of skin with hair from the top of his head.
The head and the arm were never found and the body was buried without them.
Proof: 37/94-6.
4. Nedeljko Lukic, 52 years old, was killed in the orchard in front of his house in the village of Vujicic near Brcko on September 14, 1992. His head was then cut off and taken away. He was buried without the head.
Proof: 144/95-10 and 617/95-14.
5. The Moslem Ejub Dugalic, a member of the "intervention platoon" in Slavonski Brod, forced Mirko Djeric from the village of Donja Mocila near Brod out of his house on July 12, St. Peter's Day, 1992.
He maltreated and tortured him and then returned him to the house and killed him in the bathroom. Then he cut his head off and left it in the attic.
Proof: 227/95-15.
6. Sometime in July 1992 Ivko Soldan [a Croat] brought two amputated human heads to Sijekovac near Bosanski Brod and showed them around Sijekovac and in the restaurant of Hazim Cutic saying that those were the heads of Serbs whom he had slain.
Proof: 227/95-15
7.The heads were also cut off of the Serbs Stojan Pudic and Perica Jovicic who had been taken prisoner by members of the 108th Bosanska Posavina brigade when the village of Bodeliste was attacked in March 1993.
According to the findings of the post mortem examiners of the corpse of Stojan Pudic his head was cut off most probably in two stages. The edge of a mechanical instrument severed the soft tissue of the neck in the first stage and in the second the body was cut through of the fourth cervical vertebra at a stroke with the edge of a heavy instrument. In the opinion of the examiners, he was probably first wounded by firearms in the lower limbs and then, as he lay there still alive, his head was cut off; the firearm wounds on the head and chest were inflicted only after the head had been cut off.
The findings in respect of Perica Jovicic were similar. He first sustained lacerations and contusions on the left side of the face and a double fracture of the jawbone and then while he was in lying position and still alive his head was cut off. The wound from a hand gun in the area of the left breast was inflicted after death i.e. after his head had been cut off.
Proof: 144/95-9.
8. Marko Ivanovic from Lisovic near Trnovo was killed by decapitation; his head was not found with his body on June 6, 1992 when the Serbs liberated this village, so that his body too was buried without it.
Proof: 228/94-26.
9. Janko Popovic was slaughtered in front of his house in Gornja Presjenica near Trnovo on July 7 1992. After slitting his throat they cut off his head.
Proof: 228/94-15.
10. Darko Parezanin, a captured Republic of Srpska soldier, taken prisoner on June 30, 1992 in Skoripov Gaj near Trnovo, was beheaded.
Spasoje Popovic was captured at the same time and his head was also cut off and it was never found so that his body too was buried without the head.
Proof: 228/94-32.
11. Zivko Markovic [a Serb], 61 years old, was killed in the village of Mirusic in the commune of Foca.
His head was cut off and then put on a tree. This happened on May 20, 1992. His head was cut off, his left arm was cut off, he was flayed, his stomach ripped and saturated with salt.
Proof: 36/95.
12. On November 13, 1994, four members of the Army of the Republic of Srpska were taken prisoner at the Herzegovina war theater. After capture they were taken to the cellar of the Museum of the Revolution in Jablanica which had been turned into a camp for Serbs. In December 1994 they were killed.
Mirko Simic was killed by beheading. Adnan Salcin, a member of the Moslem army cut off his head with a saber. His body was exchanged in Podvelezje without the head, as was also noted in the post mortem examination carried out on March 18,1995.
Proof: 392/95 and 371/95.
13. Niko Males [a Serb], born in 1931, was killed by decapitation on April 7, 1992 [a day after recognition of Bosnia by the Western powers] in the village of Rilic in the commune of Kupres.
Proof: 117/95-4.
14. In an attack on the Serb village of Brezani, the commune of Srebrenica, on June 30, 1992, members of Moslem armed forces killed 19 serb villagers. The body of Milos Novakovic from the hamlet of Cicevac was found with the head cut off.
Proof: 493/94-9, 493/94-5, 493/94-6, 493/94-7, 493/94-8 and 635/94-9.
15. Slavko Mladjenovic,(f. Ljubomir), born in 1965, was killed on August 8, 1992 during an attack on the village of Jezestice, the commune of Bratunac.
He was buried without the head which had been cut off and taken away.
Proof: 68/94 and 635/94-28.
16. In an attack launched on the village of Vrasalici, the commune of Rogatica, on November 20, 1992, Milos Kovacevic [a Serb], about 65 years old, was shot dead in front of his house by Rusmir Balas. When Milos fell on the ground, Rusmir [a Moslem] cut off his head and right arm at the elbow and his penis and then threw the head and penis away from the body.
Proof: 137/95-8.
17. Pero Ozic [a Serb] was killed in 1993 in Fojnica. He was first forced to dig his own grave and then killed and beheaded. Responsible for the killing is Omer Pobric [a Moslem], a militia commander in Fojnica before the war.
Proof: 319/95.
18. In clashes between Moslem armed forces and those of the Army of the Republic of Srpska on November 5,1992 in the area of Kamenica, the commune of Zvornik, the Moslems captured and killed by beheading following six Serbs: Vlado Grabovica, Savo Djokic, Dragomir Bozic, Slavko Tijanic, Savo Kazanovic and Radomir Pavlovic.
Dragomir Bozic was massacred and the head severed from the body.
The head of Slavko Tijanic was found without the eyes, ears and nose, a 6 mm diameter iron bar was found in his chest, while his neck, hands and feet were tied with wire.
The head of Savo Kazanovic had also been cut off, his chest pierced with a large nail, and he himself nailed to an oak tree and crucified.
A head without the body was also found which is assumed to have belonged to Milos Grabovica.
The following were also killed in Kamenica on November 5,1992: Miladin Asceric, 28 years old; Mico Tesic, 24 years old and Nikola Milinovic, 27 years old. They were also beheaded.
Proof: 184/94-5, 184/95-6, 184/95-7 and 184/95-8.
19. In an attack launched on May 29, 1992 on the village of Bavar, the commune of Jajce, members of the Croato-Moslem army killed Stana Trifunovic, 68 years old Serbian woman. They slit her throat and then chopped her head off with an axe.
Proof: 116/95-12 and 333/95-1.
20. Mirko Dejanovic [a Serb] from Majevac was killed on May 6, 1992 in Ritesici by members of Croat armed formations from the villages of Ritesici and Brezak. They killed him by cutting his head off with a pickax. They cut off his penis and put it in his mouth.
His body had over 100 stab wounds inflicted with a knife. Jela Titura (female) from Ritesici took part in the killing.
Proof: 30/94
21. In July and August 1992 Moslem youths aged 15-16 carried around Sarajevo the heads of killed Serbs, which they found in the cellars of the part of Sarajevo called Dobrinja 5.
They played with and kicked around the heads and threw them in garbage bins.
Proof: 234/95-1.
22. In an attack carried out on June 3,1992 on the village of Brezane, the commune of Srebrenica, Moslems killed Milivoje Mitrovic and Stanoje Mitrovic. When this village was liberated in April 1993 their headless bodies were found.
Stanoje Mitrovic's throat had been slit by one "Kemo" from Pale.
Proof: 635/94-9.
23. The Moslems killed the Serb Sredoje Jovanovic from Krnice by beheading him when they attacked this village on July 5, 1992.
Proof: 493/94-13.
24. Milos Pepic from the village of Pepic, the commune of Kladanj, over 60 years of age, was killed on January 31, 1994 in the area of Banderka near Sehovici. They killed him by chopping his head off on a block with an axe.
Proof: 184/95-34
25. On September 24,1992 Moslem forces occupied the village of Podravanje in the commune of Milici, set it to fire, looted it and killed all the wounded whom they found in the village. They killed 19 persons on that occasion and massacred their bodies.
Zulfo Tursumovic [a Moslem] from Suceska had the severely wounded Tomislav Perendic [a Serb] put his head in his (Tursumovic's) lap and then slaughtered him and cut his head off.
Svetozar Jovanovic's head was cut off and impaled on a stake and Gojko Tomic was beheaded and his head thrown some 20 metres away from the body.
Proof: 184/95-34.
26. During the Moslem attack on the village of Snagovo on February 19, 1992, four villagers were killed. The head and one arm of Dobrivoje (other particulars are being established) were cut off.
Proof: 184/95-1.
27. Andja Vukomanovic [a Serbian woman] was slaughtered early in August 1992 and her body was found towards the end of October 1992 in front of the house in the hamlet of Svaljak, the commune of Trnovo, with the head severed from the body.
Proof: 228/94-31.
28. After Trnovo was taken in July 1992, Serb civilians found in Trnovo and the vicinity were killed.
Danilo Misovic [a Serb], 78 years old, was killed in front of his house in the village of Tosici near Trnovo. His remains were found buried under a dump heap.
These burials were organized by the so-called "Land Sanitation Commission". During in situ inspection and exhumation on August 13, 1992 his body was found without the head.
Drago Golijanin [a Serb] , 86 years old, was killed on July 31, 1992 on Rogoj, in an area called Rankcev Do. His remains were found on September 22, 1993, when it was established that the head had been severed from the rest of the body.
Proof: 228/94-23 and 228/94-25.
29. The Moslem Zijo Kubac slit the throat of the Serb Vasilije Lavljiv in mid-October 1993 in Sarajevo, on a spot called "Kazan", and then cut off his head with a knife and Mrs. Lavljiv was killed by Esad Tucakovic [a Moslem] who also cut her head off. Then their bodies were hurled into the abyss.
Proof: 432/95.
30. In mid-September 1993 the Serbs Dusko Jovanovic and Ervin Nikolic were brought into the premises of the Headquarters of the tenth mountain brigade of the so-called Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina in Bistrik, where they were beaten and then taken towards Bogusevac to a spot called "Kazan". There they took them into the sniper platoon dugout where they were again beaten and then Samir Ljubovic [a Moslem] killed Jovanovic with a knife and Samir Pajkic [also a Moslem] cut off Nikolic's head.
Proof: 432/95.
31. In mid-October 1993 Predrag Salipur and his wife Katarina were arrested in their flat in Sarajevo, Borisa Kidrica street No. 3. On the orders of Musan Topalovic [a Moslem] they were taken to the Headquarters of the 10th mountain brigade of the so-called Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina together with Branislav Radosavljevic who happened to be in Salipur's flat. There they beat them.
Afterwards they were taken to a spot called "Kazan" where Nihad Hodzic cut the throat of Branislav Radosavljevic slashing it twice or thrice with a knife and then cut his head off. Then he gave the knife to Husein Hodzic [a Moslem] who severed with it the head of Predrag Salipur who had been previously killed by Sabahudin Ziva and Omer Pendzo [both Moslems]. Then they threw their bodies into the "Kazani" precipice.
Proof: 432/95.
32. According to the witness heard, a peasant woman 57 years old, while she had been held in prison at the Secondary Education Centre in Jajce in mid-1992, she had been made to listen to a tape describing the ordeals of Serbs at the hands of Croats and Moslems. Members of her family were also mentioned on the tape as having been slain by Croats and Moslems.
Specifically, she heard that her husband and son had been killed and that Moslems and Croats played soccer with their chopped off heads. She was made to listen to that tape every day.
After having been released from prison, she stated, she was so tormented and lost that she was unable to recognize her own son and husband when she was reunited with them.
Proof: 561/94-4.
You were supposed to document your claim as to survivors showing up in St. Louis.
Never mind, soon all the posts from this, (your what, 13th?) user account will disappear, as have all your others, so I shall waste no more time talking to what soon will be spaces occupied by the comment:
Removed by Moderator.
hey, blue you better start getting into shape, I heard Slovenia is gonna help us out by sending a thousand or so peacekeepers over to Iraq. Mega Thanks for helping out........I'm sure my NYC bankers buddies won't forget when it comes time to roll over Slovenia's $6 billion debt.
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