What every Catholic should know about the man behind the Vatican II curtain; Annibale Bugnini.

Angelqueen.org ^ | February, 2004 | John Grasmeier

[AAABEST]

Have at it!

[AAABEST]

ping

[Jim Noble]

We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants

Well, as a Protestant let me apologize in advance of the thread for Fr. Bugnini's errors.

Born Catholics generally don't make very good Protestants, and I suppose Bugnini is no exception.

Protestant worship is non-liturgical, often and increasingly jarringly so. The pseudo-Protestantization of the Catholic liturgy since I was a boy is imitation Protestantism, what I often refer to as "Protestantism without the good parts".

Best of luck to all my traditionalist friends on this board.

[JesseHousman]

This was undone in just a few short years by a handful of new thinking and pastoral men...

And by a gaggle of protestant preachers who wanted to turn the Roman Catholic Church into a cheap imitation.

They tackled the liturgy....get the Holy Ghost out of there and insert Holy Spirit, because it sounds more friendly.

At "consecretion" let's substitute "for all" instead of "for many" because, after all, God would leave no unrepentant sinner behind, even an unrepentent Mumia Abu-Jamal.

Get the priest facing the "congregation" and for the sake of ecumenism the "mass" should be in the venacular.

No more ancient Latin hymns, but hymnals full of John Wesley-type tunes.

[AAABEST]

Given your wise (and most charitable) comments, I would much rather have had you in charge of the "reforms" of Vatican II.

You're correct. Our dour pseudo-protestant services aren't nearly as much fun as your lively real ones!

[AAABEST]

I say if we're going to do the "John Wesley-type tunes", we turn the bass up and dance and sing praises! Hallelujah!

If not, let's keep the sacred flame burning as it had since the beginning.

[Jim Noble]

but hymnals full of John Wesley-type tunes.

You should be so lucky.

I go to a Catholic church every week, and if I could bring a Wesleyan hymnal along it would be 5000% better.

God Bless.

[AAABEST]

I fully support these tunes in the NO-masses. They need something to liven them up in the worst way!

Then again you may disturb those who are napping.

[johnb2004]

When did Bugnini die?

[AAABEST]

3 Jul 1982

[redgolum]

"They tackled the liturgy....get the Holy Ghost out of there and insert Holy Spirit, because it sounds more friendly."

You know, as one of the "good Lutheran" I still say Holy Ghost most of the time. The old German word for Spirit and Ghost are the same.

As for facing the congregation during the consecration, I have had a number of my RC relatives complain about the pastor in the church I grew up in NOT facing the congregation during the consecration.

Just goes to show you can't ever make everyone happy!

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

When did Bugnini die? 9 posted on 02/11/2004 1:28:40 PM PST by johnb2004

When God finally got tired of the nonsense...

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

He looks gay...

[steve86]

Thank you for your posts. I am not a religious scholar but a traditionalist and find them most interesting!

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

It's pretty clear that if it had become known that the leader of the liturgical revolution for the New Mass (the new style of worship) of Vatican II was a member of anti-Catholic secret societies, it would have brought discredit upon the reforms and, indeed, on the policies of Vatican II and Pope Paul VI himself. It would have given a great propaganda advantage to conservative and traditionalist oppponents of Paul VI and Vatican II. As indeed it has... But the story doesn't end there. And, of course, here we are today with a Church disgraced and enmired in sensationalist scandal upon scandal...

That hostile opponents of the Church seem to find great delight in the murky liberalism of "the spirit of Vatican II" even making it clear (in the attacks on Mel Gibson) that they personally prefer Vatican II Catholicism Light to the real McCoy certainly adds to the mystery, intrigue, and suspicions...

[AAABEST]

My reasons for staying away from the Masonic cult aspect of the Bug-man were several.

For one, even without such implications this is one scary individual. Also whenever any author brings the charge up (even though some of the evidence available is quite convicting) that gives his liberal supporters ammo with which to try to discredit whatever is written because you don't have the video tape.

In any case for Rome to take the severe public actions it did (twice) against someone so high a profile is quite extraordinary. Whatever he did (twice) must have been quite egregious.

Pray for his soul and pray for our blessed church.

[AAABEST]

Thank you for your posts.

Well thank you sir! What a nice thing to say!

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

To accuse someone of something of which they are innocent is, of course, very wrong. There are enough reasons to be concerned about the goofier aspects of the ever-wandering and almost assuredly poltergeist "spirit of Vatican II." One need not prove that anti-Catholic ideological organizations are involved in order to present a case for a more traditional and refined style of Catholicism.

However, if one considers the Bugnini episode in the larger context of such controversies, such as the ones alluded to in the suspicious death of Pope John Paul I, the Vatican Bank scandals, and the sordid mess of the homosexualization of the Church, and the sodomy cult behind it, well, well... Curioser and Curioser.

[HarleyD]

I'm with Jim. I know many would disagree but in my very warp perspective I think diversity in the worship of God is part of God's plan. You can't "Protestantize" the Catholic worship. (Is that such a word???) Of course wouldn't you think a Catholic priest would want to "Catholictize" the Protestants. I'm copyrighting that by the way. :O)

The only thing I wouldn't do is apologize. We have a number of these people in all churches trying to steer their denomination to a one world church. (Could this be why there are so many denominations to make it harder???) Unfortunately they're being very successful.

[AAABEST]

You know I've never engaged in tinfoil around here as I tend to think scientifically.

Stating emphatically that our church has been infiltrated by the enemy and his soul-rotted minions is not overstating anything. Even on a EWTN (which is supposed to be presenting our image to the world) half the priests are effeminate lispers. We're supposed to pretend that we don't notice.

The American Council of Catholic Bishops is basically a socialist/leftist shill organization.

We're not going to "nice-Catholic" our way out of these deep-rooted problems. It's going to take a medieval purging, lots of time and most importantly prayer to fix it.

God is on our side and The Son told us the gates of hell wouldn't reach us. How that eventually pans out is yet to be seen.