Hagia Sophia - Time to restore to a Christian Cathedral

http://www.hagiasophiablog.com ^ | March 7, 2006 | Angeliki Papagika

[eleni121]

It is revered, and it will always be protected. Plus it is better served as a museum than as an active church.

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That is the problem. Given the highly destructive nature of mohamedans we can say that it will crumble and be destroyed and the only question is when.

It is not revered and is now used to make money as a tourist attraction. The structure should be used for the purpose it was intended: worship of the Lord Jesus, not a museum.

[eleni121]

related article

http://www.aim.org/guest_column/4406_0_6_0_C/

[Little Ray]

Sorry. The Hagia Sophia belongs to the Turks as a prize of war - they stole it fair and square. They could sell it back, if the Orthodox church could pony up the cash, but I don't think they have any obligation to return it.
Besides are there enough Orthodox Christians in Istanbul to justify a Cathedral like that?

And what are they going to do with the minarets?

[King Prout]

if return of the cathedral is the PRICE of admission to the EU, then the Turks would in effect be recompensed for its return as part of a larger deal.

[annalex]

The minarets should be razed. If someone can move them, without destroying them, fine. They were a sacrilege when they were built.

The prize of war argument goes both ways. Turkey wants admission to the EU, right? This is one of the conditions. If they'd rather keep the spoils of their military exploits of the past, they should not apply for memebership in the community that suffered from them, and see for how long they can hold on to the loot without it.

When a church is made into a museum, it is thereby desecrated. It is not as bad as some other form of desecration, but it is desecration nevertheless.

[Little Ray]

Signed it. But I don't think it will happen.

[Constitution Day]

"any chance of making them return the city to its rightful name (constantinople) and its rightful owners (greece)?"

Istanbul (Not Constantinople)

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

[cchandler]

"Given the highly destructive nature of mohamedans we can say that it will crumble and be destroyed and the only question is when."

Yeah, but it's the Hagia Sophia. It wasn't destroyed by the invading Moors because it contained the biggest room any middle easterner had ever seen before. They ripped the gold leaf off the walls, whitewashed the paintings and mosaics, and turned it into a mosque. It has been a mosque for over 500 years, so they have an attachment to it -- and I wouldn't worry about Christians blowing it up out of religious paranoia. I would, however, worry about earthquakes destroying it.

Also, to suggest that the "structure should be used for the purpose it was intended: worship of the Lord Jesus" is a little silly considering how many ancient buildings (including cathedrals/temples/catacombs/etc) are now museums or mere tourist attractions that are only used used for ceremonial purposes in extreme circumstances. So I have no problem with it remaining a museum, and I have no problem with it being used as a church if the Turks don't object.

[annalex]

Istanbul is a mispronunciation of Constantinople. Modern dentistry was not invented yet when they came up with it.

[cchandler]

"The minarets should be razed. If someone can move them, without destroying them, fine. They were a sacrilege when they were built......If they'd rather keep the spoils of their military exploits of the past, they should not apply for memebership in the community that suffered from them, and see for how long they can hold on to the loot without it.

This happened in the mid-15th century. It's ancient history, and should not be relevant in any present day negotiations. This entire argument is as silly as al Qaeda saying that they are acting today to punish Europeans for taking back Grenada in the late 15th century.

[King Prout]

it was inevitable ;)

[GeorgefromGeorgia]

I believe the Theodora was made co-Emperor. Also, she was originally from Alexandria. Interesting because traditional Roman law did not allow women to act in plays. Of course the Greeks had no such rule. Of course the Byzantine Empire became more Greek than Roman. Emperor Justinian was known as the last Roman.

I studied history in college and read widely, but until a few years ago, when I read Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" I was not very familiar with the history of the Byzantine Empire.

The 4th crusade sacked Constantinople was in 1204. It was reputed to be worse than when the Turks sacked the city and Hagia Sophia in 1453.

[annalex]

15th century is not ancient history, dude.

If it is not relevant to you, don't sign the petition.

[Nihil Obstat]

Anonymous Song of Lamentation - written at the Fall of Constantinople in 1453.

(Translated by Richard Stoneman)

God rings the bells, earth rings the bells, the sky itself is ringing,

The Holy Wisdom, the great church, is ringing out the message,

Four hundred sounding boards sound out, and two and sixty bells,

For every bell there is a priest, for every priest a deacon.

To the left the emperor is singing, to the right the patriarch,

And all the columns tremble with the thunder of the chant.

And as the emperor began the hymns to the Cherubim,

A voice came down to them from the sky, from the archangel’s mouth:

Cease the Cherubic hymn, and let the sacred objects bow;

Priests, take the holy things away, extinguish all the candles:

God’s Will has made our city now into a Turkish city.

But send a message to the West, and let them send three ships:

The first to take the cross, the second to remove the Gospel,

The third, the finest shall rescue for us our holy altar.

Lest it all to those dogs, and they defile it and dishonour it.

The Holy Virgin was distressed, the very icons wept.

Be calm, beloved lady, be calm and do not weep for them"

Though years, though centuries shall pass, they shall be yours again.

******

I like that ending. I'm signing that petition.

[Theoden]

Maybe you guys can petition your Patriarchs to get Papal support for this. I know many Catholics, myself included, who would love to see the Hagia Sophia returned to the Greek Orthodox. I signed the petition, and if there was some kind of monetary fund, I would donate.


(Or maybe we can "buy it" from the Turkish government and give it to the Orthodox as a reconciliatory present :)/wishful thinking

[OpusatFR]

Glad to help my Orthodox brethren.

Passing this on to friends...

[NYer]

No thread on the Hagia Sophia would be complete with images, especially my favorite.

Detail of the mosaic of the Deesis — At the center of the composition, Christ is shown holding a closed Book of the Gospels and making the sign of the benediction. The iconographic type appears renewed, the expression is that of the so-called Palaeologan Christ, revealing God’s compassion for humanity.

[kimosabe31]

Eleni...great post. I'll fwd to every orthodox I know.

[kimosabe31]

Eleni...great post. I'll fwd to every orthodox I know.

[Young Werther]

Procopius is one source of info about Theodora. She did come from and "Entertainment" Family. Indeed in the 5th Century there were four castes of citizens and each was distinguished by their color. Red Green Blue and Yellow, (I think). Theodora's father was a bear trainer and during the periods between the chariot races at the Hippodrome in Constantinople, his family would entertain the asssembled race enthusiasts. When her father died the family was in dire straits, (not Cape Dyer on Baffin Island! Been there but that's another story). Eventually Theodora's mom would remarry and Theodora would travel to Egypt as a Courtesan, (we all know what that meant!).

As I said, my Greek History Prof was one of the world's top Byzantine Scholars. The only thing he enjoyed teaching more was the Iliad and Oddyssey and of course Schliemann's Troja!