Fundamentalists (five major points of conflict with the Catholic Church)

Catholic Education ^ | Peter Kreeft

[NYer]

Peter Kreeft has written extensively (over 25 books) in the areas of Christian apologetics. Link to all of Peter Kreeft's books here.

Peter Kreeft teaches at Boston College in Boston Massachusetts. He is on the Advisory Board of the Catholic Educator's Resource Center.

[NYer]

Hopefully this will help all of us in the forum, Catholics & Fundamentalists, to better understand each other.

[wagglebee]

Hopefully this will help all of us in the forum, Catholics & Fundamentalists, to better understand each other.

That would be nice, but it's doubtful.

Actually, since the title lacks any direct reference to the Papacy or the Blessed Virgin Mary, the sola scriptura crowd might not even show up.

[StJacques]

A very long essay which I read rather quickly, but to which I may return later today if I get time.

Even though the stated purpose near the beginning was to help Catholics and Fundamentalists understand each other, I must say that there are at times instances of strong, almost strident, language used against Fundamentalist Christian belief; phrases and words such as "making the same mistake," "confuse," and more, which may not be helpful to a useful exchange of ideas between Catholics and Fundamentalists. Having stated that, I should say that as a Roman Catholic who has on many occasions attempted to discuss such differences with Fundamentalists, I have often been dismayed at the stridency and even outright condemnation of my own beliefs within such discussions. I hope that Fundamentalists who read the above will not take offense at Peter Kreeft's tone and will instead look to the argumentation.

[ladtx]

bump for later read

[Miss Marple]

I agree. Calling it "Baby Bible" and referring to "our great creed" and their "small creed" kept me from reading further, and I am a Catholic convert from Protestantism.

Veiled contempt for Protestants will not win converts. I was drawn to the Faith by the great examples of Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict, neither of whom used this type of language.

[StJacques]

". . . Veiled contempt for Protestants will not win converts. . . ."

I agree. And neither will it promote a useful and respectful exchange of ideas between Catholics and Fundamentalists Protestants.

[Ciexyz]

Faith-sharing bump.

[texan75010]

I grew up Catholic. My brother in law studied to be a priest and quit. Ironically, he married an ex nun. Through all of our shared experiences, I can sum up our feelings in one passage of scripture.

Matthew 15:1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2"Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!"
3Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God said, 'Honor your father and mother'and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'5But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' 6he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:
8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.'"

Maybe Catholicism is simply too nuanced for me to grasp, but I can tell you this much. Having gone to Catholic school all of my life and catechism as well, I have come away with this conviction: I would rather burn in hell than live as a Catholic.

Having said that, I consider myself a follower of Christ and the teachings he taught. Those teachings conflict with the things I was taught by observing the lives of priests and nuns. It was not what they said so much as it was the things they did. If that causes you to assign the label of fundamentalist to me, so be it.

This post reminds me so much of the arrogance of the liberal. Unwilling to closely examine the fruits of their doctrine, the refrain is that we just have not tried to follow the liberal doctrine close enough. The message does not translate well to the "common man" or the "red state nascar crowd" because they are just not smart enough or nuanced enough to appreciate it. Shades of gray as opposed to black and white. President Bush, to them, is a fool because he says what he means and means what he says.

I did not need a co-president with Hillary Clinton and I don't need a co-redeemer either. I did not need the arrogance of Bill Clinton splicing the meaning of the word, "is" or the nuanced campaign of John Effing Kerry telling me he voted for something before he voted against it. I certainly do not need someone who deems themselves to be my moral superior dictating how I should pray or when and what I can eat when they cannot even keep their holy men from assaulting young parishioners.

Once the plank has been removed from your eye, perhaps you will find an audience who is willing to listen. Your loss of membership is not due to people not understanding your doctrine. Quite the contrary, as people gain a complete understanding of your religion and examine its fruits, they are making the educated choice of leaving it.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I had to print it out to read it (my poor eyes) --- and it's 11 pages.

Mo' later...

[Claud]

I'm with you StJacques; I've found in this forum at least, that it is near impossible to have a productive debate which starts out: Catholicism is right, Fundamentalism wrong.

A far better tactic IMHO is to zero in on individual mischaracterizations (Mass is unbiblical, etc) and show how they don't fly.

[Ciexyz]

I've always heard the euphemism for someone dying as "He joined the church triumphant". Always thought that sounded nice.

[Campion]

I would rather burn in hell than live as a Catholic.

I hope you don't really mean that, because if you do, you're on way to hell already.

[Campion]

Calling it "Baby Bible" and referring to "our great creed" and their "small creed" kept me from reading further, and I am a Catholic convert from Protestantism.

So is the author.

[Pyro7480]

Those teachings conflict with the things I was taught by observing the lives of priests and nuns.

All priests and nuns? What about the laity? Yeah, the Church on earth is made up of sinners. Show me a denomination that ISN'T made up of sinners.

I did not need a co-president with Hillary Clinton and I don't need a co-redeemer either.

That's not what coredemptrix means. Mary is NOT equal to Jesus Christ. He is her Son, but He is also her God.

Your loss of membership is not due to people not understanding your doctrine. Quite the contrary, as people gain a complete understanding of your religion and examine its fruits, they are making the educated choice of leaving it.

So, you're going to weigh decades of clerical sex abuse, committed by a minority of clergy, against centuries of creating Western civilization? Good luck with that.

[Claud]

Having said that, I consider myself a follower of Christ and the teachings he taught. Those teachings conflict with the things I was taught by observing the lives of priests and nuns. It was not what they said so much as it was the things they did.

Thanks for your post. I regret that you had bad experiences as a child (I've known my share of wacky priests too), but that is not really a good basis for judging the religion as a whole. I'm sure that you would not want evangelicalism/fundamentalism judged by the likes of Jimmy Swaggart or a pastor who abuses children. There is no group of Christians in the world whose ranks are spared from the occasional nut/hypocrite--and I'm sure you'll agree also that the Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of saints. The weeds grow within the wheat.

But as far as people making an educated choice to leave, I feel I must point out that there is almost a cottage industry now of pastors and other people who are entering the Catholic Church precisely *through* education and study.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I haven't finished the whole thing yet and of course I strongly disagree with it. But let me say this is my favorite criticism so far: "Symbols are too poetic for its hardheaded mind to grasp, whether in Scripture or in sacrament."

LOL! Nice way to change the subject and ignore the point.

[Jaded]

What about your plank? For someone who claims to "follow Christ" you're very bitter.