Posted on 10/12/2009 11:11:44 AM PDT by Jedediah
What are you talking about?? There were schools full of them.
So you believe God is on tap, to support a school of prophets? No wonder there were so many false prophets in Israel! And no wonder they are around now!
Will VA benefits pay for me to attend the School of Prophets? What are the prerequisites? Do you have a published syllabus? What does it cost?
No doubt there were schools full of false prophets.
:) How many prophets are really needed?
Now, now, Roamer_1;
You know these characters aren’t interested in BIBLICAL
. . . . FACTS.
If they can’t find reason to wail, whine, throw rocks and throw dust in the air, they’ll invent excuses to do so.
Then label the excuses righteous.
It’s going to be a riot when kids younger than 8 prophecy and God backs it up instantly . . .
such as with swallowing generals and their whole armies up in a sudden big hole in the earth.
Dramatic times ahead.
I would think that a School of Prophecy could basically operate for free, whenever the school is low on funds they can just go buy lottery tickets.
Will VA benefits pay for me to attend the School of Prophets? What are the prerequisites? Do you have a published syllabus? What does it cost?
Don't laugh. Google is your friend:
That's just the first few hits.
The Internet Tube Thing is not an unmixed blessing.
How many prophets are really needed?
One.
I had to laugh at that. :)
Exactly.
That’s OK...I’m still waiting to find out what you think this prophet means.
Oh wait! I guess he has prophesied that I’m unworthy. In fact, everyone who doubts him is unworthy. Only those who believe him with no questions asked are worthy of knowing what his ramblings mean.
If I send $20, will he include an explanation with his book?
Sorry, Quix. I know God. He has sent the Spirit to confirm I’m his child. You and Jedediah don’t get a vote.
One, but ONLY if he was a top graduate of AMI Prophetic Training School. Two if they graduated from the Elijah House Prophetic School, since they require “No application will be accepted without the required deposit” - apparently they aren’t very good at predicting who will welch on their payments!
Not interested in voting on that issue.
Happy for WHOSOEVER WILL . . .
I'm curious, do you recall a single instance where Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, Saints Peter, Paul, James or any Apostles EVER refused to preach to those who did not believe? Maybe this is another difference that Catholicism has (though I doubt it), but I thought the POINT of the Great Commission was to convert the nonbelievers.
This group is very odd.
Elijah House is a wonderful place . . . a great deal of redemptive ministry & deliverance has flowed out of that place for decades. John and Paula and the folks they trained are top flight. I’ve met them and a number of their protoges. I’m close friends with a couple of them here locally. Thousands of changed lives have resulted.
The Sandford’s TRANSFORMATION OF THE INNER MAN is a wonderful book that has brought freedom and wholeness in Jesus to thousands of people.
These are the Gifts of the Spirit. We ALL need them. These are true offices of the Church. If they are not in evidence, then the Spirit is not in evidence.
That is why I mentioned ‘1st Apostles, 2nd Prophets, 3rd Teachers’...the Apostles were undoubtedly first in the church’s need. Then prophets, since the NT wasn’t written. And then teachers...
So, it is your contention that certain of the gifts have passed away? Then why is it that the reader is encouraged to attain the "higher" gifts, if they no longer apply?
If one reads further in I Corinthians (as I had mentioned before), it provides for structures regarding how the gifts are to be applied within a congregation, especially prophecy... I Corinthians 13:2 obliquely refers to the highest prophetic kind - a prophet who speaks to nations (mountains)... And in the process defines the work of a prophet:
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Now, in the sense of gifts, I don’t doubt some still are given prophecies. As I’ve mentioned before, in my experience, it is usually someone known for their close walk with God who brings up concerns involving purchases, someone’s motives, etc.
That is called a "word of knowledge" in some circles, which is a good thing - but it is a far cry from that described above.
Where are YOUR prophets? Did Isaiah operate in secret? Did Elijah act in private? Where are YOURS?
Who do YOU believe is currently a Prophet of God, ministering to the world today?
I have met some few, regionally... five that I consider to be prophets- Folks you have never heard of, who serve in their capacity. One of rare authority. Another handful which are unproven, but seem worthy.
All are wanderers, reclusive, or in small Church bodies, which seems to be somewhat of a stereotype in my observation, though that may not be typical, as much as some bias on my part (I tend to find solace in such places).
Lets look at 1 Cor 14 - maybe we’ll notice what it is that Paul describes as prophecy:
“3On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.”
“18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue...22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? 24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.”
“29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, 32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.”
I notice a few things:
There are probably 3-4 prophets per congregation, and possibly more - after all, if one lets 2-3 speak, and other weigh what is said, then the minimum would be 3-4. Per congregation.
You say you’ve met “five that I consider to be prophets” - that is about the MINIMUM per congregation, if Paul is using the same definition as you!
I notice that a prophet “speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.” Hmmm...didn’t say much about predicting the future, did it. And who in the church “speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation” - any ideas?
While contrasting prophesy and tongues, Paul says, “in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue”. So a prophet speaks words “with [his] mind in order to instruct others”.
Golly. I wonder if anyone in those stodgy old mainline Baptist churches ever does that...if so, who?
And I notice “But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you” - lets see, have I ever seen that?
Yep. Maybe not falling on his face, but certainly falling on his knees! And not once, but quite a few times!
Now, if you are right in defining what the office of a prophet is in the NT, then you have, by your own admission, met just enough in your life to support ONE congregation.
If I am right, and this office describes preaching the word of God, then I’ve seen this many times.
I have already said that the NT also supports a prophet who speaks the word of God directly. Anyone want to guess how many New Testaments were floating around in 75 AD? But most of the NT scriptures WERE available by 150-200 AD, which is also when the more formally defined prophets started to disappear.
By 100AD, the formal definition type Apostles were gone. Then, by 200 AD, certainly the large majority of the formal definition prophets were gone. Teachers remained, as did Preachers of the Word.
Of course, if you are right, then you have enough folks wandering around in secret to support a single congregation in one meeting. If I’m right, the church is doing OK by the gifts of the Spirit, who I believe has been at work for 2000 years - and yes, Baptist though I be, who worked through the Catholic and Orthodox Churches as well.
We still have church planters. We still have folks who, by your definition, have ‘knowledge’. But no, I see no sign we have second-grade Apostles who can do everything but write scripture. And I see no sign we have 4-5 future-telling prophets per congregation.
And I REALLY see no sign that Jedediah is a true prophet of God!
I think I understand your sensibilities and perspective.
I think your stridency has been quite effective in communicating both your sensibilities and perspective and some of your emotions about it all.
I certainly have similar experience and perspective.
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