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Since ancient scribes were so totally accurate ... mistakes ...? (Ecumenical)
jefflindsay.com ^ | 1994

Posted on 02/22/2010 9:47:13 PM PST by restornu

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To: restornu; rm; greyfoxx39; reaganaut

Much of the article you are tampering with is by Prof Tov who is Jewish he is not LDS!
______________________________________________

The article is by Jeff Lindsey, a mormon who has an agenda to discredit Christianity and the Christian bible and attempt to “prove” that Joseph Smith”s book of mormon is true...

Lindsey cherry picked among the writings of various Jewish scholars in an attempt to make a case against the validity of the prophecies OLd Tesamant of the Bible, and therefore also the fulfillment of those prophecies in the New Testament...


41 posted on 02/23/2010 2:26:48 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: restornu; rm; reaganaut; greyfoxx39

Resty, would you like it if a Christian posted an article about the Book of Mormon an made the thread “ecumenic” ???

And every time you attempted to refute something you felt was incorrected and/or bias was deleted or you were admonished by the Religion Moderator ???

I doubt if any of the Christians would do such a thing...

But how would you feel if that happened ???

If you feel you must post ecumenical threads about the religion of Mormonism, go ahead...

But to commandeer the beliefs and religions of other FReepers is surely beyond the realm of decency ..

and then to patronize only comments that agree with the article and condemn any dissenting comments from the very people who are the true adherants to the beliefs smacks of violations of the First Amendment rights of those believers...

As a Christian, I feel that my beliefs and my Holy Book, the Bible has been maligned...

Why am I suddenly the “anti” when I object to calculated errors in an article written by a non-Christian about the Holy Book that I as a Bible believing Christian, love and believe in ???

Tennessee Nana


42 posted on 02/23/2010 2:44:37 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: restornu
ECUMENICAL???

Why do MORMONs continually BASH the BIBLE??


43 posted on 02/23/2010 3:38:04 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Lindsay only gives the intro and closing what is in the heart of the artilce is Prof Tov.

It is Tov work and findings after many years working on the Dead Sea Scrolls much of this knowledge came to light.

Prof Tov has spoke at other gathing with of clergyman and discussed these same things and none of those clergy man have acted like the anti here do it was a veru ecumenical meeting of those who seeking truth.

Hebrew University Prof. Emmanuel Tov Wins Israel Prize for Research in Bible http://www.cfhu.org/node/659


44 posted on 02/23/2010 3:39:24 AM PST by restornu (be confident in your faith; worry not what others say...like being a conservative these days, hm?)
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To: restornu
 
Ah....
 
Ecumenism!!!
 
It's ALWAYS good to see what OTHER folks believe instead of being subjected to spin and obfuscation...
 
 
 
It is only an article if you feel that strongly post your own PC thread on the subject and invite the spirit of contention that is always a good way of getting to the truth!
 
 

Here is MORMONism's own creed:
 
 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 
THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541
 
 

  1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
  2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
  3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
  4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
  5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
  6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
  7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
  8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
  9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
  10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
  11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
  12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
  13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith


45 posted on 02/23/2010 3:43:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
 
Look what can I say some want credentials some don’t know what they want!

Here is a late Prophet of MORMONism take on CREDENTIALS:

 

In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.


1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.

I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.

Ezra Taft Benson

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

 


 


46 posted on 02/23/2010 3:45:45 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
It’s not just that some scribes were sloppy.

“They were condemned as a class by the Lord for their unrighteousness (”Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!” in Matt. 23:39).



Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man.”

David Whitmer,  An Address to All Believers in Christ, Richmond, Mo.: n.p., 1887, p. 12

 

47 posted on 02/23/2010 3:52:58 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
Errors creep in.

Golden Plates disappear...

48 posted on 02/23/2010 3:53:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Tennessee Nana
I’ve seen the Dead Sea Scrolls

THOUSANDS have!

A mere handful of MEN have CLAIMED to 'see' Golden Plates.

49 posted on 02/23/2010 3:54:50 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
Yes this article was introduce on an LDS site Prof Tov is Jewish he is not LDS but he is a scholar who study most of his life biblical scriptures!

And he is AGENDAless, as well!

50 posted on 02/23/2010 3:55:59 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: Tennessee Nana
Resty, would you like it if a Christian posted an article about the Book of Mormon an made the thread “ecumenic” ???

HMmm...

Sounds like a Merit Badge project!

52 posted on 02/23/2010 3:58:19 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: Elsie

Where are the autographs of the books in the Bible?

Autographs disappear....


54 posted on 02/23/2010 4:06:50 AM PST by urroner
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To: PugetSoundSoldier

Amen.


55 posted on 02/23/2010 4:18:52 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: boatbums; Religion Moderator
RM, I would like the last line in the article corrected to reflect what Boatbums has pointed out in his post.

This information comes from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and has nothing to do with the Church of Jesus Christ.

The last line is purposely deceptive.

56 posted on 02/23/2010 4:23:39 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: restornu
Then how come these errors were not corrected by "god" through Joseph Smith. Why did “god” give him the near perfect “companion to the Bible”and fail to work on the Bible itself?

Does it not make sense that if “god” can give the entire BOM to Smith that he would fail to correct the prequel, that he would not at least give Smith an errata sheet or two to fix the errors that had crept in? Seems “god” is not a very competent author or editor IF that was the case...

Or maybe, just maybe it was not God Smith was talking to...

57 posted on 02/23/2010 4:32:06 AM PST by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...
I would suggest that Christians simply ignore a thread that does not allow for the Christian faith to be defended.
58 posted on 02/23/2010 6:08:59 AM PST by greyfoxx39 ("The Economy Is So Bad, Even 'Rosy Scenario' Lost Her Job"-Jim Geraghty)
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To: presently no screen name

Amen


59 posted on 02/23/2010 6:29:34 AM PST by svcw (If you are going to quote the Bible know what you are quoting.)
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To: restornu; Tennessee Nana; reaganaut; Religion Moderator; Admin Moderator; Jim Robinson

The posted article is antagonistic, and anti-Christian. How can it possibly be closed to retaliation? It should be open. Are we infested with Romneybot Troll mods?


60 posted on 02/23/2010 6:32:07 AM PST by genetic homophobe
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