Posted on 02/25/2011 3:36:52 PM PST by NYer
I agree with you.
>>For instance, he told me that Luther ordered the death of four hundred Christians who didn’t agree with him. <<
My job as a Christian apologist is not to defend “famous” Christians. Rather, it is to defend what Christianity teaches against the claims of those who would attempt to destroy its credibility. When people bring up “this or that famous christian was a member of the KKK” or other stuff, I just say that we are all equal in the eyes of the Lord and we are all flawed men and prove it every day, proving why He had to do what He did. I defend the acts of no other man, unless I know enough about the acts done and agree with them. After all, Luther was just a man like the rest of us. He did have guts, though.
I also like this last paragraph from one of my links:
“The most popular interpretation today is that the Third Commandments prohibits swearing, especially swearing that includes the word “God,” but there is little or no basis for such a reading of the text. You won’t find many responsible theologians suggesting such an interpretation but you will find it in many popular texts.”
That’s my whole point.....which is why I don’t belong to ANY religion.
People see ONLY what they want to see and hear only what they want to hear.
If I mess up, relying on myself for Bible interpretation, He knows I am not being mislead (which seems to tick Him off!).
I’m trying to find that dark hidden path so few seem to find, let alone stay on.
He knows that, and I know that He knows, so if I am ever being “boastful” about it....I know immediately....
I think I’m feeling it now, so I’m going to shut up.
Does that mean that you self identify as saved by the god that you see in the mirror, while rejecting 2000 year old Christianity handed down by Jesus to the Apostles and thence it comes to us? Does your preacher have a 35,000 square foot house and a private $8 million jet? Does the Reformed Holy Spirit reside in your bosom and convince you that you are Christian and real Christians aren't?
In the 1950s & 60s, my father worked in Saudi, Kuwait, Morroco & Libya, so had a pretty good grasp of Islamic beliefs...just as he did of his own Christian faith.
When a set of Witnesses came to the door, he invited them in, then turned it into an hour plus of regaling them with Islamic theology that refuted all their arguments.
It was hilarious, as there was no way they could politely leave...until he invited them to “pray” with him, They skeedaddled fast at that, and never came back.
One of a number of Great American Cults - Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Scientologists. The first two came out of the
“burned over” areas in upstate NY, New England, etc.
>>That’s my whole point.....which is why I don’t belong to ANY religion.<<
Well, I don’t belong to any “man made religion” but I call myself a Christian. I drove bus into disadvantaged neighborhoods for an Assembly of God church for over ten years, and played in the church orchestra for the same time. I then picked up the bass and sang and eventually became worship leader for a small “Christian” church for a few years. In my last church I was in the band for a couple of years.
I now have no church. It is partly because we are moving to KY and don’t want to get “settled” here, but in that lies my main issue: about 80% (or more) of what goes on in church is not “Christian”. Rather, it is cultural. Yeah, that is GREAT for the young families. For us older guys who have heard the same sermon on [insert subject here] our main reason for being there is maybe to teach, etc. But again, since we are not long for this area, it doesn’t make much sense to just warm a pew because “that’s what Christians do”. My best friend who lives four minutes from my place in KY wrote the book “And No Religion Too - Thoughts on the spectator Church”. http://edgoble.com/
He and I have had many discussions on the porch about the modern church model vs the early church, why we attend, etc. There has been a disconnect over the last few decades. We’ve visited a few churches in KY but we have not chosen a church yet. One thing is for sure: We’ll have to tone it down when we do find “our” church because the last thing we want is to be percieved as the “knowitall city slickers that think they’ve come to set us straight”. We are even thinking of starting our own small congregation with Ed and his wife. It’d be one of the few non-Babdis churches in the area.
Nah. They just shun family members (their own kids mainly) who don't buy into their program. I write to one such rejected kid who is now in prison and he'd beg to differ with you.
what I find odd is that they take advantage of our civil society, but refuse to take part in the political process. No voting, no standing up to political tyranny. Above it all. In this sense, they do indeed do harm.
>>People see ONLY what they want to see and hear only what they want to hear.<<
BTW, that is only partly true. When I was first “saved” Iwent to an assembly of God church, which strongly preaches Pre-Tribulation rapture. My Sunday school teacher had even written a white paper on it. I not only believed it, but really WANTED to believe it. What Christian wouldn’t? I mean, getting whisked away just as the sh...ah, stuff hits the fan and all.
Problem was, when I studied the Word I found that it just did not hold water. There was ample CLEAR scripture that pointed MUCH more to “mid trib” or what is actually a “post trib / pre-wrath” position regarding this event. And when I read the white paper, I was more convinced than ever that his whole position was built on what he wanted to believe rather than what the bible actually said.
I changed my mind. Others have done it as well.
But you are right to a strong degree. I went back to his class (about 60 people) ten years after I left the church and over half of the people there were the same people I attended with in the 20th century, but older. He happened to be in his “end times” study and when people raised their hands I felt like I was in a time warp. They were parroting the same exact arguments I heard back in the day.
It was like going back to your old high school math class to visit a class and finding the people you graduated with still going to the class. And they were covering the exact same assignments we were covering back when I was in school 10 years before.
People really need to GROW.
But then, it becomes a social thing and, frankly, that is one of the main reasons for the church - fellowshipping with other believers. It can mean watching a football game together - or a good potluck.
I must say that as a person trying to find my way into a religion, your comment pretty much guarantees the hoplessness of that quest.........
I first heard about “donum vitae” from reading a watchtower magazine a witness left with me. I’m waiting 25 years now for my diocesan newspaper to do the same..
Actually, this should be posted under entertainment, not religion...
>> “It is just what they believe they do no harm to anyone.” <<
.
Speaking lies about God does no harm?
Guess again.
20 years ago I made the mistake of letting some in the door and argued with them. They came back with some older members to help me see the truth. When I didn’t agree they hounded me for a month. I finally had to threaten to call the sheriff on them. They finally left me alone. We moved to a different area some different ones started coming out to the house. I tried to be polite but firm. Then one day saw them coming down our long driveway and I just happened to be coming out the door with my shotgun to carry it out to the shop. broken open of course. I told them that my convictions were not open to discussion and now that they knew that to please not come on my property ever again. They have not been back. I don’t trust people who don’t have windows on their “churches”.
>> “if and when the world erupts into chaos they may very well be the survivors.” <<
.
Not too likely!
Re-read the Revelation.
Hmmmm
Mat 25:
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
That is an excellent point. Thanks.
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